red ancona genotype...chick photos added.

caladenia · **Posted:** Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:46 pm

i have been wracking my brains looking at teh different red mottled patterns in the genetics of chicken colour book, and looking at the mille fleur pattern, trying to work out which would be the one that applies to red anconas. can anyone please help me? my first chicks are due out next week, if they hatch, so i haven't got a chick down colour yet.

garyb · **Joined:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:05 pm **Posts:** 69

Caladenia markjohnconley has put the genotype for red ancona in one of his threads in breeds and breeding I think there are two types it is a recent post if you do a search.

caladenia · **Posted:** Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:06 pm

markjohnconley wrote:

Ancona, Black Mottled.................... E/E (or ER/ER) Ml-pg+/Ml-pg+ mo/mo w/w Id/Id(Id/-) w/w
Ancona, Red Mottled (e+ based).... e+/e+ s+/s+ (s+/-) mo/mo w/w
Ancona, Red Mottled (ER based)... ER/ER s+/s+ (s+/-) mo/mo w/w

ok so where did this information come from, there are no red anconas in either of the two references cited. they are not just red mottled if you look at the examples in the text and if you look at the feather marking on the bird. the feather marking on the bird is more like mille fleur.

markjohnconley · **Posted:** Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:05 pm

caladenia, the thread is a work-in-progress, any corrections/additions are welcome. the genotypes most probably came from this forum, i searched a hellofalotof on blackdotte, KazJaps, Henk69, Sigi. somewhere there, mark

caladenia · **Posted:** Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:10 pm

not meant to be a criticism mark, just trying to understand

i cannot wrap my head around which ones belong to the red ancona, it will come eventually. i am trying to work it out so that i am understanding what i am seeing. i intend to photograph the chicks from when they hatch (haha all good intentions ).

i am not sure how to account for the mille fluer type pattern on the feathers. the pictures of red mottling in david/sigi's book are just like black ancona but with the black replaced with red. this is not how the red ancona looks, it has the red feather, a black tip then a white mottled tip. i will try to take a picture more closely of the feather to show what i mean if you need this.

thankyou for your time.

markjohnconley · **Posted:** Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:20 pm

caladenia, no offence taken, all's well, you're frustrated, fair enough, it'll have to be one of the pundits who'll help you i'm a novice, all the best, mark

intoChooks · **Joined:** Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:46 pm **Posts:** 2720

Hi,

Look at page 201 GOCC, Red Mottled Mahogany wheaton, eWh/eWh s+/s+ Mh/Mh mo/mo

Cheers

Christian

markjohnconley · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:44 am

Thanks Christian, just added it to the list.

poultch · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:57 am

Caladenia,

not sure if I understand you, are you after a dominant white red spangle or a mille fluer? ie a black band after the white mottle before the red starts or just a white tear drop, then the red part of the feather. And what colour should the underfluff and feather shafts be as per the standard?

Not sure if mo will be easiliy visible in your chick down anyway, the only hatch down that ive had thats indicated mo, they turned out to be what some call hysterical mottling.

ruff · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:21 am

caladenia i will be really interested to see the colour of the chickens. my guess they will be ER with Db to remove the black and allow red in.

can you put a photo up on this thread so i don't have to go looking for them. photo of both male and female.

my guess is the chickens are going to be black with a dusky breast and face.

poultch · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:05 am

Ruff,
does Db work on ER?
Now I am interested to see what these chicks hatch out like!

ruff · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:42 am

Db works on ER but you need 2 doses in the female. the male one dose is sufficient. this is what the sebright is made of. you can remove all the black to the tail on ER with Db. not sure if columbian helps here as well. you need to check some of the old writings for that. i am playing around with making milliefluer on ER on pekins but it is only half hearted effort. in some cases the birds can look vry much like eb adults but they start as black with a sort of smokey look to the front half of the chicken down.

caladenia · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:31 pm

poultch wrote:

Caladenia,

not sure if I understand you, are you after a dominant white red spangle or a mille fluer? ie a black band after the white mottle before the red starts or just a white tear drop, then the red part of the feather. And what colour should the underfluff and feather shafts be as per the standard?

Not sure if mo will be easiliy visible in your chick down anyway, the only hatch down that ive had thats indicated mo, they turned out to be what some call hysterical mottling.

here are some pictures of the parents. i have to recheck the standard to see what it calls for in undercolour and i don't have a standard with me now. the feathers should be red then black then white, with the white being v tipped as in the black ancona.

according to the judge at teh recent show, juliet has too much gold around her neck, she should be more red like him

will post pictures of the chicks when and if they hatch...............but the eggs are still coming and the ones in the bator look good.

caladenia · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:34 pm

oh and christian, i have been wondering whether that picture you mentioned is correct, its certainly the nearest that i could find.

markjohnconley · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:59 pm

caladenia, the undercolour should be "red and slate, the darker the better"

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red ancona genotype...chick photos added.

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