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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:59 am 
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Champion Bird
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Strangely enough it was getting involved in that barnevelder thread that led me to join the Aussie Barnevelder Hub on facebook and see the work members in there are doing and the results they are getting. Aside from following some dutch breeding principles the fundamental thing they have been doing is refining to eb base to clean up lacing. The difference it has made is amazing. You really need to get on facebook and join the group Sue. The facebook world can be a bit daunting but that group is by far the most helpful poultry group i am a member of and is full of knowledgeable people from Australia and other parts of the world. Some good contacts on there for eggs too.

Mycoola, don't worry too much about refining the down until you've got plenty of birds with good type and red to work with. If you try to take on too much you might find yourself losing a season and getting disheartened. In the meantime, track your growers. Mark them according to down pattern and see how they grow out. Don't worry too much about splits with washed out lacing, they will still produce eb's with good lacing if paired well. Type is always number one, two and three. Red is number four. At the moment i have base as my number five. Knowing how the different base will effect the growers is an advantage and having them tagged helps with the decisions when it comes time to cull back. If your cockerel is eb then you are half way there and should produce enough eb's from split pullets if needed. This has been my main goal this season. To hatch at least a couple of quality eb based cockerels with some red in the hackle (black hackles are a problem in my flock). I was off my feet with a back injury for a good portion of last season and lost track of what bases everything was on since tagging didn't get done. I've since learned how to spot wheaten carrying birds a lot better but cockerels are a bit tricky. The distribution of chick down suggested my main cockerel is split as are a good percentage of my hens. I did have one terrific black laced cockerel that was producing more eb chicks with lovely early potential. He had good type and port wine saddle feathers with some red in his hackle. His chicks are much rounder with thicker shanks and better shaped heads than the chicks from the previous cockerel with the same group of hens. Unfortunately i lost him in the extreme heat on Sunday. The only bird i lost and the only bird i couldn't afford to lose. But that's the way it goes and just adds to my point. Don't cull too hard until you've got plenty of birds with good red and type to work with. Knowing what is going on and what it means in terms of how to break the cycle is a huge benefit. You can still work with splits, just try to pair them with eb's.

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There's silk in my name but dottes are my game. Amateur breeder of standard blue laced red wyandottes.

Shane.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Sound advice thanks Shane, i have kept all my pullets this year as don't have enough not too, so far type is good , all have great ground colour and red in neck hackles so this is a good start. Sorry to hear you lost your most needed roo, always the way, murphy's law :roll: . This happened to me to when the bloody dog ate my 2nd eb based blr pullet who was really needed and then the slate blr cockerel who was excellent :aaargh: . The dog has been moved on now :thumbs: . On the bright side 1st blr standard eggs fron Qld is pipping, curious as to there base, after seeing the parents photo i wont be surprised if eb/ewh as the roo was well laced but like mine the hens lacked decent breast lacing.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Finished the hatch for blr standard eggs, got 3 from the 7 eggs. And 5 from 5 lorps :roll: , typical. The lorps are 3 black, 1 blue and 1 splash. They were real big eggs and the chicks are huge, might get a couple of decent layers out of them.
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, the 3 blr chicks downs are all different. 1 is a nice red/ brown in down so hopefully a good eb blr, another one looks either eb or eb/ ewh. And the 3rd light orange buff not sure if splash, would be nice if so. I have 1 splash blr bantam wyandotte growing at the moment and looks to be a pullet. Hopefully a nice splash as will be very useful with the black laced roo.have bred mostly pullets from the bantams this season.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Yep, eb in the corner. The other two look to be pure eWh but difficult to tell in the pic. Here's a pic to give a general idea. The dark ones are eb. The ones that stand out as being very light are eWh/eWh and the stripey ones are eb/eWh. They look very much like wild type down pattern but we've worked them out to be eb/eWh. The chick at the bottom right (5 o'clock) is a splash. It's a bit darker than most i've seen, they are usually more blue on their backs but that should give you an idea of what splash eb looks like in case you were wondering if the lighter downed chicks are splashes. I've dug out a second pic for a closer look at a splash for you (splash in foreground, split in background).
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There's silk in my name but dottes are my game. Amateur breeder of standard blue laced red wyandottes.

Shane.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Thanks Shane, the light in the brooder gives them a bit of funny colour, looks like i have 1 eb, red/brown down with blue underneath, and faint dorsal stripes in blue, the 2nd is striped like a wild type and matches your eb/ ewh and is similar to the bantam chicks that hatched from my eb/ ewh hen. And the light orange chich with very faint blue dorsal stripes must be ewh ewh. My best blue laced red hen is laying again after being broody so i am saving her eggs as have a dozen california quail eggs i want to hatch if lucky . Hatched 4 california quail but lost 3 in first week, maybe chick starter isn't really suitable. . Same for the Golden pheasant s they seemed to get rickets and i ended up once a week giving them avitrol bird vitamins. Have 6 growing well. So tame compared to chicken chicks. There is 1 now if you softly whistle with the brooder open he comes out and sits next to my arm and whistles back.
Now for the fun part hoping to get at least a pr from the blr, if all cockerals , i have at least slw hens to use if needed.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:04 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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If correct in early sexing the eb blr is a cockerel as is the eb/ewh , the ewh ewh is a pullet. Happy if the eb is a cockerel as i think its best if the roo is on this base. I have 2 hens and 1 pullet slw that have real good type and lacing. I know its a slow path if using them , all cockerals have to be culled.but at least it gives me something to put to him and they are on the correct eb base. Set the california quail eggs today as they hatch around day 25, in 4 days time will set the blr bantam wyandotte eggs.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Only use the silvers as a last resort. It takes too long to get back to red and get rid of shafting. My f2's still look like early development blue laced golds. Just hatch as many as you can. If all you have is eb cockerel and eWh based pullet then you'll produce all splits. As long as you can hang on to your eb cockerel you can put splits back to him and produce a good percentage of eb's. Better to work with wheaten based red than eb based gold or silver. Wheaten is only one gene albeit a pain in the backside. Red (good rich dark red that is) is an accumulation of a number of unknown recessive red enhancers as well as Mahogany. Much easier to 'repair' split or incorrect base than poor red. That's why wheaten is still an issue so far into development. ;-)

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There's silk in my name but dottes are my game. Amateur breeder of standard blue laced red wyandottes.

Shane.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Some of my bantam hens are towards the large size for bantams, almost as big as my barnies. They have great ground colour and type seems good .would a couple of these with the standard blr roo be OK. Would he throw some size into he's daughters from these bantam girls.they are eb/ewh. Thanks for the insight for using silvers,


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Yes mate, that could be an option. Bantam genes are sex linked so if you use a large fowl cockerel over them you should produce large fowl females and males carrying one dose of bantam genetics so mid sized. Of course it all depends on the physical size difference but if they are too different in size you could always resort to artificial insemination so you don't hurt the little bantam hens. The males could potentially be useful to produce both sizes. Of course some refining will be needed. Bantams usually need to be reduced further in size while standards need to be increased but it could work out a good starting platform.

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There's silk in my name but dottes are my game. Amateur breeder of standard blue laced red wyandottes.

Shane.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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[quote="DottesnSilk".......... Bantam genes are sex linked................."

Dottes thank you.

That is the best thing that I have learned all week :yess :wee :yess :wee :yess :wee

Might solve a size problem which has been cropping up in the Araucanas


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:17 am 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Yes it is handy, i pretty much new this already, but good to get confirmation :thumbs: . Thats how i got the dlg bantam barnie/ wyandotte from my bantam wyandotte roo over standard barnie hen. I have a marans cross ara now and she is quite a large size black pullet, way bigger than her mum.
Now for puzzling question :hmmm: , how did i get 1 splash pullet from black laced roo over blue laced hen, should not be possible but she is definitely splash.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:55 am 
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Champion Bird
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Possibly another sire carrying blue or splash?? Or the splash is actually a light blue. Or the Black cockerel is actually a dark blue. Just count your blessings you got splash when all you were expecting to get was blue and black and roll with it. ;-)

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There's silk in my name but dottes are my game. Amateur breeder of standard blue laced red wyandottes.

Shane.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:22 am 
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Old Mother Goose
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My guess is that the splash is actually light blue. I have had a couple of Barnies over time where that could be the only explaination - unless they were still carrying fertility from a previous mating, tho I always give a 3 week gap, (maybe short weeks?)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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:think: , definitely only the one possible sire, maybe is a very light blue that looks almost splash, as we know there is so many variations in the shades of blue. If it is splash excellent as very using back to Dad.
Had one quail egg explode in bator , does this mean that the rest of eggs are rubbish now.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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Not necessarily, will just make everything stink. Wash any that are manky and put a piece of panty hose with some bicarb soda in the bator to absorb the smell.


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