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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:58 am 
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Gallant Game
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Anyone with chicks yet ?, :ltlchick It’s that time of the year to breed the best strongest chicks for the season, so far I have three different clutches running on the ground, 2 clutches Malay with Shamo blood and one clutch from my blue English Malay strain, plus another two broody hens due to hatch soon, another five or more hens started to lay recently, my duckwings are laying ..
My favorites are those with around 6 to 12% Shamo blood and those crossed with the large duck-wings varieties, I know most of you don’t agree on this matter therefore I respect your views or believes.. I too was a strong believer to keep Malay true until I discovered more of their history since their arrival to Britain and later on to Australia including other British Colonized countries.. I still have the suppositively being true type Malay’s, I find these are impossible to match their written standards, very challenging to droop their tail down and to achieve any with pearl eyes, achieving small lobes with small wattles is also hard.. To me excessively large wattles, heavily feathered, or long hackle spoils Malays, this is the reason I prefer to outcross with closely related breeds to achieve identical Malay as those drawn on old sketches, the Malay we have today is often heavily feathered, it’s common to see them with hackle being too loose and long..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:52 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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How true to type are your Blue English strain ChickenPox? And I may have missed a thread explaining this but what info do you have on outcrossing the originals?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Gallant Game
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got about 3 clutches out

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:48 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Chickenpox,
how do you go with these cross bred birds and pea combs?
do the ones that come out with cushion combs breed true or will a % of their offspring come out with pea comb or even rosecomb ?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Gallant Game
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wildman wrote:
How true to type are your Blue English strain ChickenPox?
With my blue/Reds strain, I also have these in black/reds, partridge, pyle and wheaten that I keep without mixing other strains with them. I call these the English strain so people understand the strain involved in my discussion since I have other strains… They breed 100% true but getting the perfect specimen from this strain is challenging… Although I experiment by crossing strains together I do keep a close record from each other.

wildman wrote:
And I may have missed a thread explaining this but what info do you have on outcrossing the originals?
After the war Malay and Australian game became unpopular resulting to a lot of outcrossing taking place to keep both breeds available, they still suffered with deformities to this day.. You find the difference with breeders who crossed their fowl, some would come out in the open admit as I do, and there are those who kept it secretly, outcrossing happens with all breeds..
Personally I reckon Malay’s in Australia were mixed/outcrossed a long time ago during the Colonial Era when cock-fighting experiments took place using Malay blood as their main infusion with Oxfords/Carlilse, Asils, Sumatras, Moderns, resulting in the making Australian Pits and Australian Game…Reza, Madras Asils and Malay breeds were dumped soon after these experiments accomplished other strains, Malay’s popularity fell because they were no longer popular as a pit breed.. Luckily wheat happened to be one of our main source of income for some farmers who kept these breeds going during that time.. Since then Malays and Aussie game battled for support, breeders faced the decision to outcross with Madras Asil until the Madras vanished, to most it meant they had no other alternatives other then mixing with Aussie or Indian game, some even mixed Aussies back to Moderns, in the process we lost pearl eye, increased wattles size with walnut comb becoming common.

According to history Shamo genetics are more pure than the human made Malay breed, by putting back a small portion of the Shamo blood is putting back genetics that been unintentionally removed during the process of making other breeds from neglect since their arrival from a couple centuries ago.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:01 pm 
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Gallant Game
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Manzo 99 wrote:
got about 3 clutches out
You also have three clutches out.. :-P

I have 4 chicks in my first lot, 6 in the next, and 3 in the other.

Going to breed lots :pc2 so I can kill lots :bg this year


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:07 pm 
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Gallant Game
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hensbyshenhouse wrote:
Chickenpox,
how do you go with these cross bred birds and pea combs?
do the ones that come out with cushion combs breed true or will a % of their offspring come out with pea comb or even rosecomb ?
Hi hensbyshenhouse,
Because the breeds I cross with carry relatively similar comb I never worry about combs unless I decided to show.. Pea comb, Triple pea comb, Walnut and Strawberry combs are all closely related, in fact these combs all belong to Giganteus strains being the Shamo, Saipans, Larri, Kulang, some of the Thais, and finely Malay… First preference for the Malay’s comb is described as “ Strawberry comb ” Walnut comb being second, Cushion comb being a version of the Strawberry comb but flat/squashed down is considered a fault or undesirable.

Rosecomb should never occur from these crosses, it would mean fowl play, and if it did I would recommend avoiding entirely.

Walnut is considered being a neutral comb, you could go back to Strawberry or Triple Pea comb with one other matting., all you have to do is mate one partner with your desired comb and you achieve both.. Very easy to fix.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Can I ask how many malay breeders get pea, rose or single combs coming through in any of their hatchings?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:18 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Had some pseudo pea combs some years ago when I attempted the introduction of new blood, but never rose or single.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:22 pm 
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Gallant Game
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my new brood cock has a pea
i have only ever had 1 pea comb from pure malay

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:25 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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chickenPox wrote:
After the war Malay and Australian game became unpopular resulting to a lot of outcrossing taking place to keep both breeds available, they still suffered with deformities to this day.. You find the difference with breeders who crossed their fowl, some would come out in the open admit as I do, and there are those who kept it secretly, outcrossing happens with all breeds..
Personally I reckon Malay’s in Australia were mixed/outcrossed a long time ago during the Colonial Era when cock-fighting experiments took place using Malay blood as their main infusion with Oxfords/Carlilse, Asils, Sumatras, Moderns, resulting in the making Australian Pits and Australian Game…Reza, Madras Asils and Malay breeds were dumped soon after these experiments accomplished other strains, Malay’s popularity fell because they were no longer popular as a pit breed.. Luckily wheat happened to be one of our main source of income for some farmers who kept these breeds going during that time.. Since then Malays and Aussie game battled for support, breeders faced the decision to outcross with Madras Asil until the Madras vanished, to most it meant they had no other alternatives other then mixing with Aussie or Indian game, some even mixed Aussies back to Moderns, in the process we lost pearl eye, increased wattles size with walnut comb becoming common.

According to history Shamo genetics are more pure than the human made Malay breed, by putting back a small portion of the Shamo blood is putting back genetics that been unintentionally removed during the process of making other breeds from neglect since their arrival from a couple centuries ago.


If it is true that Malay genetics have been mostly compromised in this country it would be good to hear more evidence.

And it would also be good to hear from more breeders' experiments with Asian game fowl that are attempting to restore the breed...Teddy, maybe?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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I have had an odd pea comb over time.
If it is a female and superior in all other breed characteristics I do not cull it but use it in the breeding pen.
I have never retained and used a ckl with a pea comb.
Similar applies with a female with willow leg, if superior she can go into a breeding pen.
I was told by Gordon Mangelsdorf in the mid 70's that a female with willow leg or pea comb should not be penalised if superior in all other respects as it just showed they were breeding true to form.
The retention and use of willow legged female helped greatly in restoring the rich yellow leg required as in the early days straw coloured legs and orange eye were two things that haunted me until I selected heavily to get back to the rich yellow leg and daw eyes so vitally needed.
I have never had a single or rose comb ever.

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Malay Game specialist Std & bantam. Breeding since 1968, interested in breed since 1950's


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Would like to keep Malay Game and would like, like everyone else, to start with as good a type as possible. Not having much luck with breeders, am unable to contact the gent from just north of Lismore (hope his health is good); and another is laying low this year and from this forum I have assumed another two are in a similar situation.
Any ideas, I live in Canberra but will travel for a bird or eggs; have driven to south of Adelaide is the furthest I've driven so far; thanks for any advice, open to PMessage's, mark

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:56 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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MJC,
I guess you didn't get my email


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:22 am 
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Champion Bird
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hensbyshenhouse wrote:
MJC,
I guess you didn't get my email

No hhh, i'll recheck my pm outwards, mark

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