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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:25 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Have uploaded a folder if pictures in the Gallery "horley_83"


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:59 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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They've probably gained a little more reach but lost bone with the Shamo infusion, however with careful selection each generation it's surprising how much you can improve the line.
I left a comment on one of your gallery pics. Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:28 pm 
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Gallant Game
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BeatenEgg wrote:
Wineglass,

could you please post pics of your malays so it can be seen how much the modern day malay compares?



Here is a picture of a hen feathered malay, He is part way into changing from golden duckwing to a wheaten. This fowl is approx 9mths old..

Image

This fowl is 18mths old, a bit scrappy i know at the moment, but you can see the wheaten colour & no saddle hackle, pure henny malay.

Image


**** Hope you like these Andy ??


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:56 am 
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nice photos. The hen feathering probably comes from a smidge of blue shamo bloodline? Looks like your making progress, I havn't even got an egg from my Malays yet this year, I only have three trios left and the hens are getting old.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:04 am 
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Old Mother Goose
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Can anyone assist me with the following....

What is the general height / weight of a Malay (rooster & hen)?

What is the general height / weight of a bantam Malay (rooster & hen)?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:12 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Location: Rosewood Qld
Malay Weights according to APS 1st Edition page 79

Large Fowl Male 5.00 KG (11lb)
Large Fowl Female 4.10 KG (9lb)

Bantam Male 1255 to 1470grams ( 44 to 52 oz)
Bantam Female 1190 to 1360grams (42 to 48oz)

The Large Fowl weights are stated as approx weights

No Heights are given. I like to see a Standard male reach to similar height to an Aussie although I have also seen stouter males that are acceptable

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:49 pm 
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Gallant Game
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Andy Vardy wrote:
nice photos. The hen feathering probably comes from a smidge of blue shamo bloodline? Looks like your making progress, I havn't even got an egg from my Malays yet this year, I only have three trios left and the hens are getting old.



You are on the money Andy, as we both know one of the early shamo (a self blue) carried some old malay henny blood.. I have inbred to this side.. I have a couple of blue tail wheaten malay pullets here also, sisters of the young duckwing stag.

Those shamo have gone a long way in the last few years, I can still remember when only a few of us had them....


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Gallant Game
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I was just looking back over this picture and noticed the leg set on this fowl.

I would like to think all gamefowl had a good set of pins right underneath them, and not on the outside of there body that is now very common in some lines of games..


Image


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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They look alright Wineglass but I know nothing about them. How many eggs would you expect from a hen in a season?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Gallant Game
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manna gum wrote:
They look alright Wineglass but I know nothing about them. How many eggs would you expect from a hen in a season?




In the old days they were classed as "may-lay" on account of not many eggs....But most malay now-a-days dont lay to bad...

Mine on a whole would lay about 50-60 eggs per year, sometimes more, sometimes less.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:29 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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Geoff wrote:
Malay Weights according to APS 1st Edition page 79

Large Fowl Male 5.00 KG (11lb)
Large Fowl Female 4.10 KG (9lb)

Bantam Male 1255 to 1470grams ( 44 to 52 oz)
Bantam Female 1190 to 1360grams (42 to 48oz)

The Large Fowl weights are stated as approx weights

No Heights are given. I like to see a Standard male reach to similar height to an Aussie although I have also seen stouter males that are acceptable


Thanks Geoff.

As I know nothing about the height of an Aussie Game, could you enlighten me as to what sort of height a Malay would be, in both large & bantam?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:51 pm 
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wineglass wrote:
I have bred malays for 20 years now, and I find the best malay type is the fowl that contains 1/4 to 1/8 shamo, the old exhibition type has gone down the same road as the exhibition old english game, with judges only picking fowl with the extra short back, and well overdone body....after all a malay is from the game family and as such should be athletic, active on his feet, upright, fierce as well as proud....Not some lumbering slob as most often seen...
The 3 curves should also be of the same lenght in keeping with the balance of the fowl..

The pen and ink drawing at the top of the page put there by Andy Vardy,(good work Andy) Is the type of malay that people should be aiming for....good head, body high in front and drooping at rear, and not over done....

One other thing, judges should take a bit more time and read the standard before trying to judge a malay, as most judges havent the time for malays and know very very little about the breed....As malays have started to make a comeback in the last 6-8 years, the older judges just are'nt used to seeing and judging them, hence them knowing NOTHING about them..




Chickenhawk is correct once you have added Shamo you no longer have Malays and should not be recognised as Malays by Judges.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:47 pm 
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yes, adding new blood is a tricky one. Personally I have kept my malays free of shamo blood, not because I am totally against it as such, but because by looking at them I can see the effects through my eyes (although minor to some) and it niggles at the back of my mind even though it improves them in parts. Having said that I find it more of a problem with those bloodlines that have had aussie mixed in them, and these birds niggle at me even more!. Another breeder told me he crossed Indian Game into his Malays once, and they were so big they wouldn't fit through the doors of the large show pens! So you will get plenty of hybrid vigour and a good selection of genes to work with, but its not a quick fix, you need to also look at the long term effect. Its sad that a lot of the old breeders like Kevin Gibbs are passing away, but hopefully new breeders will also stick with them for the long haul. They eat a lot, don't lay well, bad mothers, slow growers, with a curved back, downward spur, cruel look and often too big for the show pen, but I still love em :)

I like Malay roosters to be up around 70cm or higher, but am not as fussed with the hens for height. Sadly poultry standards never seems to mention size, only weight.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Gallant Game
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chickenman2 wrote:
wineglass wrote:
I have bred malays for 20 years now, and I find the best malay type is the fowl that contains 1/4 to 1/8 shamo, the old exhibition type has gone down the same road as the exhibition old english game, with judges only picking fowl with the extra short back, and well overdone body....after all a malay is from the game family and as such should be athletic, active on his feet, upright, fierce as well as proud....Not some lumbering slob as most often seen...
The 3 curves should also be of the same lenght in keeping with the balance of the fowl..

The pen and ink drawing at the top of the page put there by Andy Vardy,(good work Andy) Is the type of malay that people should be aiming for....good head, body high in front and drooping at rear, and not over done....

One other thing, judges should take a bit more time and read the standard before trying to judge a malay, as most judges havent the time for malays and know very very little about the breed....As malays have started to make a comeback in the last 6-8 years, the older judges just are'nt used to seeing and judging them, hence them knowing NOTHING about them..




Chickenhawk is correct once you have added Shamo you no longer have Malays and should not be recognised as Malays by Judges.




But adding Aussie & Indian is ok is it..??....

The only reason some of the older breeders didn't add shamo, is because they were not around then... Look around, 95% of malay around have red eyes, large wattles, tail up, back flat, almost a rose comb, & round shanks and you will find a lot more if you care to look....
Shamo gives back the pearl eye, the no wattles, and the downward tail, most of the first crosses i have done also have a good wheel back & flat shins, but granted there is still a lot more work to be done..You have to remember that the malay had all but died out, so that most of the one's at shows today contain lots of Aussie & Indain blood.

And as history shows, the malay is close kin to the thai, & the shamo is a thai fowl bred to a japanese standard for the last 150 years.

And just of interest i also breed thai game, but the strain of thai i keep come walnut combed just like the malay..


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Wineglass & Andy I am no expert on Malays what height would you say they should be. A Standard Show Cage is what 2ft high and they should be rubbing on that so what height would you want them My Guess is around 27 or 28 Inches when stretch out fully how would that be?

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