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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:48 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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I have hatched some chicks out of the mating of buff sussex rooster over a light sussex hen and have had some interesting chicks come out. I will post some pics of what hatched but first what would people guess as to what colors of sussex I got from this matting??

Regards MickD

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:55 pm 
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pullets buff and the ckls silver?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:14 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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hi

I have crossed a barbu D'uccle with a bantum light sussex. i got two colours out of it.
i got 3 that are white with columbian markings. i got 2 that are orange with columbian markings. :chicks:

i think you got a buff with columbian makings.

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Last edited by Chick004 on Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:17 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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pale buff pullets and light males (with perhaps splashes of colour here and there) cheers pam

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:18 pm 
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Discerning Duck
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Totally agree with Ruff on this one, in theory if your chookie parentage is pure, I use a red sussex rooster over light sussex hens to get buff pullets and crappy light sussex boys . .I would suspect though that the pullets from your mating will not be true buff in the long run, instead being more washed out. I would suspect the chicks are still yellowey but the girls should have buffish eye patches . .

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:24 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Interesting I was told by some sussex breeders that from this cross you would get light sussex cockerels of poor quality and nice buff pullets. So here are some of the chicks.
Image
Light sussex cockerel with " dirty" color.

Image
Buff sussex cockerel with white throughout. I also got some pullets that look the same.

NOW THE 3 INTERESTING CHICKS THAT TOOK ME BY SUPRISE.


Image

A pure white sussex pullet

Image

Image

A corornation color pullet. her white is not pure white a bit "dirty" for want of a better word


Image
a coronation color cockerel with patches of buff on his saddle and dirty white

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:32 pm 
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Mick, I think the mottling will disappear on the female.
Are these from the sussex you got from me? If so, their base came from a speckled x light. That is were the mottling is coming from in the pullets. Now having said that, I had one white sussex show up when I was breeding them as well.
As fare as the others go, I can not help you as nothing like those happened to me. Very interesting and I particullary like the last cockerel.
If they are not related to the ones you got from me, disregard everything I have said! :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Hi Mick,

Lav dilutes buff to a straw colour, obviously both parents are carrying lav for it to show up, that coro buff looks pretty pitty it aint a standard colour, you could use it to a light to make coros.

cheers

Christian
:claps:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:55 pm 
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sounds like you have a very mixed up lot. your rooster is obviously silver split for gold and both parents are split for lavender. could also be recessive white and maybe mottling.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:27 am 
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Proud Rooster
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MickD,
Can you take photos of the parents? I'm wondering if the hen/mother is a very pale buff (s+ gold)? If so, and the first 'Light' cockerel is gold (s+/s+) and not silver, carrying gold (S/s+), then you have a gold diluter segregating, which would be a handy mutation to come across. Eg, you could develop 'Cream Columbian' (which is the phenotype of this cockerel, but it might be genetically Silver/Gold S/s+), Citroen Millefleur pattern, & the mutation would be handy in developing clean ground colour Silver Millefleur.

If the lavenders don't develop mottling, they would be called 'Lavender Cream Columbian' in Belgian Bearded Bantams (if they were mottled, then - Porcelaine). It is my understanding that if a colour/pattern variety exists in another breed Standard, then these birds can be exhibited as a 'Non-Standard' colour variety in your breed. Well this applies with the Belgians, so in principal it should apply to other breeds. Eg, if the Pekin Standard has a colour variety that is not in the Belgian Standard, we could exhibit this Pekin variety as a ‘Non-Standard’ Belgian variety. But of course this would need to be discussed with the relevant Breed Club, to be certain.

So the segregation of these genes would be very useful in developing new varieties in the Sussex, especially if the mottling gene segregates also. Eg, the following varieties could be developed:

With mottling gene (mo/mo):
-Porcelaine
-Citroen Millefleur
-Silver Millefleur
-Silver Porcelaine

Without mottling gene:
-Cream Columbian
-Lavender Cream Columbian (‘Cream’ phenotype coming from lav mutation)

* Coronation Sussex are 'Lavender Silver Columbian' genetically.

If the mottling gene is not segregating in this stock, it wouldn’t be very difficult to develop Porcelaine from crossing these Lavender Cream Columbian with Speckled Sussex – two generations to segregate the base genes needed (need to segregate both lav & mo). From there, you could cross Coronation Sussex with the Porcelaine, and develop the Silver Porcelaine (once again, two generations needed). Also, add Light Sussex in there to develop Silver Millefleur (2 generations needed).

I’ve always thought that these varieties would be beautiful in large fowl. So why not utilise this opportunity and develop some beautiful varieties in the Sussex :) .


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:18 am 
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Proud Rooster
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Wow Kazjaps and to think I was thinking of eatting them :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Image

The Father

Image
The mother which I think just may be a pale buff

Regards MickD

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:46 pm 
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lucky you have kazjaps on the trail as danged if i can explain gold roosters out of this cross unless that hen is carrying some very strong diluters of buff.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Lol Mick, yes one person's culls is a treasure trove for others. Keep you teeth off of them :mrgreen:

I wasn't expecting the mother hen to be that pale, but she does have a brassy tinge to her. Yes, maybe more than one gold diluter.

Let us know if you want any genetics help with developing the varieties I mentioned.
Here are a few photos to wet the appetite:

Silver Porcelaine
Image
------------------
Silver Millefleur
Image

(Photos courtesy of the Belgian Bantam Club of Australia)
http://users.tpg.com.au/channan/index.html

A link to Feathersite - Citroen Millefleur:
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGK/ ... PorcP.JPEG


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:54 am 
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Proud Rooster
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Ok kazjaps looks like i will be hanging on to them. :thumbs: :thumbs:

Which ones should I keep. The father has passed away unfortunatly.

I would be interested in creating the Silver Porcelaine and the Citroen Millefleur to start of with.

Regards Mick

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:23 am 
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Proud Rooster
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Ok Mick - glad you are keeping them :wink:

It depends on what Speckled Sussex you have, and whether you have Coronation Sussex?

For the Citroen Millefleur, it doesn't matter which way you cross them, ie you could put the pale mother hen to Speckled Sussex rooster, or put these pale Citroen Columbian together (ie mother & son) to breed the numbers up, and put a Speckled Sussex hen in with them (the latter hen’s chickens should be darker ground colour). We don't know what the gold diluter is, ie whether dominant or recessive, but if ig (inhibitor of gold - cream), the following is one breeding method to develop Citroen Millefleur:

--------------------------------
To make Citroen Millefleur:
*If a recessive gold diluter

Citroen Columbian X Speckled Sussex =

F1 Offspring:
- 100% Buff Columbian (heterozygous for red enhancer(s) and gold diluter(s), and mottled) Ig+/ig, Mo+/ mo

Cross F1 x F1 (above) =

F2 Offspring:

56.25% (9/16) Buff Columbian
18.75% (3/16) Citroen Columbian
18.75% (3/16) Millefleur
6.25% (1/16) Citroen Millefleur

* I.e. first cross not many are needed, as probably all will be the same genotype. In next generation, only approx. one in sixteen will be Citroen Millefleur (with ig/ig), but you may also segregate red enhancer(s) from the Speckled Sussex. The paler the Speckled Sussex used, the better the result. You may also segregate lavender varieties.

-------------------------------
Similar to the Lavender Cream Columbians. Eg you could breed the numbers up in these, and put a Speckled Sussex hen in the breeding pen to develop Porcelaine. But it doesn’t really matter which way, eg you could put a Lav Cream Col hen in with Speckled Sussex rooster.

To make Porcelaine:

Lavender Cream Columbian X Speckled Sussex =

F1 Offspring:
100% Red/Gold Columbian (carrying lavender, carrying mottled, heterozygous for red enhancer(s)) Lav+/lav Mo+/ mo

Cross F1 x F1 (above) =

F2 Offspring:

56.25% (9/16) Buff Columbian
18.75% (3/16) Lavender Cream Columbian
18.75% (3/16) Millefleur (Speckled –tri-colour)
6.25% (1/16) Porcelaine

* I.e. Once again, first cross not many are needed, as all the same genotype. In next generation, only approx. one in sixteen will be Porcelaine – so need to set/hatch more eggs (ie similar result to making Citroen Millefleur).
-------------------------

If you made the Porcelaines first, you could wait & do the following way to make Silver Porcelaine:

Coronation Sussex (Lavender Silver Columbian) rooster X Porcelaine:

F1 Offspring:
- All Females: Lavender Silver Columbian (carrying mottled) S/- Mo+/mo,
- All Males: Lavender Silver Columbian (carrying gold, carrying mottled) S/s+ Mo+/ mo

Cross F1 x F1 (above) =

F2 Offspring:
18.75% (3/16) Female Lavender Cream Columbian
6.25% (1/16) Female Porcelaine
6.25% (1/16) Female Silver Porcelaine
6.25% (1/16) Male Silver Porcelaine
6.25% (1/16) Male Silver Porcelaine (carrying gold – Porcelaine)

18.75% (3/16) Female Lavender Silver Columbian
18.75% (3/16) Male Lavender Silver Columbian
18.75% (3/16) Male Lavender Silver Columbian (carrying gold)

* So that’s ¼ that will be Silver Porcelaine (3/16) or Porcelaine (1/16).

---------------------

To make Silver Porcelaine without using Porcelaine:

Coronation Sussex (Lavender Silver Columbian) rooster X Speckled Sussex hen =
F1 Offspring:
- All Females: Silver Columbian (carrying lavender, carrying mottled) S/- Lav+/lav Mo+/mo,
- All Males: Silver Columbian (carrying gold, carrying lavender, carrying mottled) S/s+ Lav+/lav Mo+/ mo
* heterozygous for red enhancer(s) (from Speckled Sussex)

Cross F1 x F1 (above) =

F2 Offspring:
14.0625% Female Buff Columbian
4.6875% Female Lavender Cream Columbian

4.6875% Female Millefleur
1.5625% Female Porcelaine
1.5625% Female Silver Porcelaine
1.5625% Male Silver Porcelaine
4.6875% Female Silver Millefleur
4.6875% Male Silver Millefleur
1.5625% Male Silver Porcelaine (carrying gold – Porcelaine)
4.6875% Male Silver Millefleur (carrying gold – Millefleur)


4.6875% Female Lavender Silver Columbian
4.6875% Male Lavender Silver Columbian
14.0625% Female Silver Columbian
14.0625% Male Silver Columbian
4.6875% Male Lavender Silver Columbian (carrying gold)
14.0625% Male Silver Columbian (carrying gold)

* So there is about 20% that will give you new varieties, ie:
- Silver Millefleur
- Silver Porcelaine
- Porcelaine

* There may possibly be minor problems with gold/red leakage in the silver, coming from the red enhancer from the Speckled Sussex, especially noticeable in Silver Millefleur, but it is quite light in lavender varieties (Silver Porcelaine).

If you don’t have Coronation Sussex, you could also use the Lavender Cream Columbian crossed with Light Sussex rooster. F1 son backcrossed to Lav Cream Col hen (BC1/F2 – 1/2 Lav Silver Col), or cross F1 x F1 together (F2 1/4 roosters & 1/8 hens Lav Silver Col).

A lot of the F2 culls will be carrying various recessives such lavender, mottled, cream, etc, but it won’t be known what carriers what (without test breeding).

Hope the above helps :wink: .

P.s. wouldn’t these look good in Orpingtons :P


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