Backyard Poultry Forum • View topic - Information on single combed wyandottes and fertility

Backyard Poultry Forum

Chickens, waterfowl & all poultry - home of exhibition & backyard poultry in Australia & New Zealand
Login with a social network:
It is currently Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:14 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:15 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Quaama.FarSouth Coast NSW
This is really a follow on from my previous posts re good dual purpose utility strains.

My gripe with the wyandottes is the low fertility of the roosters,I have only had these birds for a year, but it has been my experience that fertility is low and sometimes non existent. I have a two year old rooster, not related, but the result has been disappointing.

I have read that reduced fertility is related to the rosecomb. Am I right in presuming that a single comb rooster would be more fertile, even a single comb wyandotte rooster?

If that is the case the I would love to introduce a single comb wyandotte to my girls, I never will show them anyway and increasd fertility would make the breed ideal for me.
I love their character, taste of the meat and little,full of yolk eggs.

If I am right I will try to find a single combed wyandotte rooster. How hard is that, or are people getting single combs all the time?

Lots of questions
This forum is fantastic :claps:

_________________
Here and now is where it is at


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:00 pm 
Offline
Champion Bird
Champion Bird
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:40 pm
Posts: 927
Location: Canberra ACT
You need to read this post, especially the last page.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7989328

its got a lot of detail about how long sperm last etc.

In summary, rooster doesn't have to do it as often for the hen to remain fertile. Rose comb semein only last 3 days, the straight comb ones can last 10 days.

Some people cull straight combs, others use them to enhance their breed. Lots of debate about it.

_________________
Debbie
(pekins - lots of them)
http://www.canberrapekins.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:14 pm 
Offline
Prime Pekin
Prime Pekin

Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 3263
Location: Campbelltown NSW
I find some strains of Silver /laced in particular have very poor fertility . Even with trimming vents and ideal feeding results are poor . Ideally large birds like Wyandottes breed better in their first year ( or at least have better fertility ). I would just use first year males for breeding , not sure that using a single comb bird is your answer ( even if you can find one )


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:18 pm 
Offline
Old Mother Goose
Old Mother Goose
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 5886
Location: Canberra
Before we get too far down this path, lets clarify one thing about rose comb and infertility, so that we are arguing the right points....

birdsofafeather wrote:
I have read that reduced fertility is related to the rosecomb. Am I right in presuming that a single comb rooster would be more fertile, even a single comb wyandotte rooster?


The science shows that Rose Comb is linked to lower fertility for one reason - short term viability of the sperm. Rose comb sperm only lasts a few days to a week, as opposed to other combs which sperm lasts for up to 2 weeks.

So if a rooster treads a female daily, then by all rights, the fertility should be no different than that of any other combed male. It is when the rosster doesnt get regular matings with females that fertility drops.

Therefore, YES, if you are taking fertility from a flock where one rooster has 4 or more females to "take care of" you should find fertility starts to fall. And therefore yes, a single comb would help fertility in that sense.

birdsofafeather wrote:
This is really a follow on from my previous posts re good dual purpose utility strains.


If you only care about fertility, in the sense of utility, then by all means, a single comb will suit your purposes. But if you are true to the breed, then really, you should be using rose comb, and hence it may not suit your utility needs.

Here are some quotes on rose comb single comb, pulled out from the various topics on the subject (Thanks David)


blackdotte wrote:
Rose comb is a completely dominant gene,that is you can't tell by lơking if it is pure R/R rose comb,or split for single comb R/r.
To get single comb r/r you must have this gene in both parents,so the hen was also carrying single comb. Statistically about 16% of all rose combed bred chicks will be single comb.
Your birds might be pure in all respect except the comb.
Two options,first breed back to a rose comb Partridge Wyandotte ,or separate the single combs and by selecting for Rock type develop Partridge Plymouth Rocks.


blackdotte wrote:
.....single combs are common in all Wyandotte varieties,and it is due to the viability of rose comb sperm. Normal single & pea comb sperm will remain viable for about 10 days on average, rose comb sperm only three at most. The problem occurs when you have a split R/r+ male that appears rose comb but carries single comb. After 3 days the rose comb component dies but the single comb component lives on. If the cock does not mate each hen every one or two days the single comb gene will be passed on with greater frequency. If the hen also carries the gene you will get single combed chicks.
You can only get rid of it by test mating,which many breeders don't do.
If you have birds that are pure for rose comb you will need to single mate them to retain good fertility.



blackdotte wrote:
If your male is pure for rose comb all the chicks will be rose comb,but all will carry the single comb gene.
If he is impure then you will get approx 50% rose & 50% blade comb.
The reason single combs do not happen as often as you would expect is due to the fact most hobbyists single mate or have very few hens with a cock. The hen holds the semen in her body and uses it to fertilize eggs as required. If you had an impure male with 15 hens you would see a lot more a lot more often. Semen from an impure male has different viability,rose about 3 days,blade about 10 days. If the cock mates every hen every couple of days ,rose comb will dominate,but if he mates each hen at greater periods of say 4 days the rose comb fraction will have died and you get the blade combs because that fraction is still viable.



Raf

_________________
Breeder of Blue Laced Red Wyandottes.

See www.bluelacedgold.wordpress.com for details


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:40 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Quaama.FarSouth Coast NSW
Thanks for the information. Raf you have convinced me that maybe I am just unlucky with my birds. The first rooster was from hell attacked everyone and everything(including chickens), so had to be culled. After he was culled a hen got broody. I set eggs that would have been fertilised by him, though I only got 4 chicks out of about 9 eggs, that was due to problems with the hen and a very large rat, she got scared and left the nest. I started breaking them the first one was alive, so hatched them under lamp, but electricity went off, etc.
When I checked the eggs that did not hatch, they all had fully developed chicks.
So he was fertile.
The next rooster I bought from a breeder,choosing the elderly gent with the nice manners. Knee jerk on my part, because I was terrified I would have another rooster like the first one, he killed one chicken, ripped her neck out and had just started applying himself to the next victim.
You are very knowledgable about this subject and experienced. On the strength of that I will attempt to find a large and friendly wyandotte rooster. The rooster and his chicks are foraging togather all day long and at night they are in the same house, so the longevity of the sperm is not my concern.

I love wyandottes, would miss them, so I am happy with your response.
:D


Thanks all

_________________
Here and now is where it is at


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:20 pm 
Offline
Old Mother Goose
Old Mother Goose
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 5886
Location: Canberra
I only know what Ive read and seen, and be sure I dont know much compared to many others. I really just wanted to be clear about the fertility issue raised, and to clarify your needs.

Glad to have helped.
Raf

_________________
Breeder of Blue Laced Red Wyandottes.

See www.bluelacedgold.wordpress.com for details


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:11 am 
Offline
Wise Wyandotte
Wise Wyandotte

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:10 pm
Posts: 4579
Location: SE Qld
You need to watch how inbred the parents are as well. Fertility and hatch-ability can fall with increases in inbreeding.

Now before someone shouts at me that they had a rooster that was as inbred as all get out and still fertile... yes that can happen, but it is not the general case.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:47 am 
Offline
Fiesty Fowl
Fiesty Fowl
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:40 pm
Posts: 1021
Location: gold coast
Breeding vigour is important but there is a lot of little things you can do to help.
1 Trimming vents
2 good food
3 safe area to range
4 no stress
5 let your flock get used to each other(slowly introduce your roo)
6 weather or sun protection(lots of shade)

All these will help. I do believe the roo's get stressed the most, so when you buy an older roo it will take him longer to make your home his. For me food and stress are the most important part of breeding. I have found if I move a roo to another pen just 10mtrs away he will go off covering his hens. It maybe just a little time that you need. See how it goes.

Daza


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:22 am 
Offline
Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:18 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Officer, Vic
Last season I was lucky enough to obtain a pair of large SL Wyandottes from a well known breeder and judge (can't mention his name just in case he gets upset) here in Victoria. The fertility rate was 100% from this pair, every egg I set in the incubator hatched, they were feed a variety of feed and lots of green, both the rooster and the hen relished eating this every morning, along with their grain I added some breeder pellets and a poultry breeder premix from Proharma which I purchased in Dandenong on the advice of Laurie Smart (he builds the Smart Incubators). I can also say that I had a trio of Barnies and got a 100% fertitility rate, friends of mine and people who purchased these eggs said that they have never had a 100% hatch rate. On the other hand I had a 2nd pair of SL Wyandottes which I purchased from a different source and hence I couldn't get a single fertile egg. I am no expert in this field but I do think it comes done to quality of stock and a good feeding regime. Perhaps I'm wrong, but your comments would be appreciated, there is always something to learn every day with poultry.

Regards
Julie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:37 am 
Offline
Golden Phoenix
Golden Phoenix

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 10113
Location: Tarago, near Goulburn
I hadn't heard of Propharma ... interesting! http://www.propharma.com.au/

I've got a pen running two roosters - Barnie/Ara, with the "blade" comb that occurs with this mix, and a Wyandotte x with a fairly typical multi-pointed peacomb. The wild hatches seem to throw to the Wyandotte 90% of the time, even though the Barnie/Ara is the dominant rooster. This thread is giving me some food for though about why this might be happening ... I'm on the verge of culling my otherwise well-loved Dale (but if he can't produce offspring, no amount of kindness to the hens can save him; not any more) but I wonder whether I should give him a last go in a breeding pen of his own ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:05 am 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Quaama.FarSouth Coast NSW
Thanks for all your thoughts
Well the eggs from my first rooster even though the eggs were laid after he was processed for the table were all fertile and the last ones were laid a week after he died.

:?
Anyway they get good food and all the foraging they can get in the day on a diverse 1 1/2 acre, only the vegetable garden is off bounds, fenced off. But they scratch everywhere, chase insects eat kikuyu( they seem to prefer it to any other greens), get scraps.
So all I can put it down too is the new rooster, Henry, such a gentleman I will hate to cull him, but I must. DONT NAME YOUR ROOSTER.

I am starting afresh with a splash wyandotte from Ralf and no doubt the coming season I will have little dotties everywhere! :chicks:

Thanks for all the food for thought

_________________
Here and now is where it is at


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:50 pm 
Offline
Golden Phoenix
Golden Phoenix

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 10113
Location: Tarago, near Goulburn
birdsofafeather wrote:
So all I can put it down too is the new rooster, Henry, such a gentleman I will hate to cull him, but I must. DONT NAME YOUR ROOSTER.


Oh gawd, I SO know what you mean. Dale is handsome, charming, gentlemanly, and keeps the flock beautifully in line. BUT - I'm lucky to have one offspring from him in almost 12 months of him running with hens. It didn't matter before, and in a way still doesn't really matter, except that I seem to be up to 6 roosters that I want to breed from at least once, and only four pens to do it with ...

We name the roosters to identify the flocks ... maybe I should just name the pens instead :roll: ("house pen", "native garden", "orchard" ... it might work but doesn't have the personality ... ).

I can only assume that Joseph's vigour in the offspring race comes from hybrid vigour. (Wyandotte x goodness knows what, although I have my suspicions about Pekin).


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
©2004-2014 Backyardpoultry.com. Content rights reserved
freestone