Backyard Poultry Forum • View topic - Creating Pile

Backyard Poultry Forum

Chickens, waterfowl & all poultry - home of exhibition & backyard poultry in Australia & New Zealand
Login with a social network:
It is currently Mon May 25, 2020 6:38 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:51 pm 
Offline
Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:45 pm
Posts: 53
ruff, I am getting whites from coloured parents. This is why I think its not dom white.
The original "turning" hen was never bred to a white rooster, and neither was her "turning" son.
In regards to the E/e+, I have been pairing birds to determine this. The rooster is e+ (you can see slight colour on his wing tips, and he has thrown BBR's when bred to eR hens (whether he carries eWh is unknown). I freely cross e+ and eR parents, as I base my breeding on type, not colour. The chicken picture shows the stripes typical of my e+ BBR's. I find it easy to distinguish which white chickens are e+ and which are eR at hatching, as they show the same markings that the corrisponding coloured chickens do. But by 6 weeks, they are pretty much impossible to tell apart (hence why i toe mark early).
I have also noticed a partly coloured tail feather in some of the white pullets. Its less than 1/4 of the feather, but it is colour, and not just mud/dirt.

my father always laughs when i start quoting from genetics textbooks. He has had this line for 30 years, and has always argued that "if a gene is in the background, it will show itself". No matter if the bird in front of you is recessive for everything, he has claimed that the background is always there. Now, I have always told him he is wrong, BUT........last year, we had 2 duckwings hatch from a BBR breeding pair......something i didnt think was possible........and before you ask, there were NO duckwings on our yard at the time (nor for nearly 8 years), but they had been used in the past.
And then, this year, we hatched only 1 Pit Game chick from our old line......and he has a pea comb.......both parents are straight combed.......agian I am told that this isnt possible.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:45 pm 
i am going to play devil advocate so don't get offended. it also helps me when observing my birds.

triple comb can exist looking like a single comb...i can prove this and it is less obvious on a hen. it would not surprise me in the least if this was in the pits.

some silvers can look very gold. do you have birds that are custard for example?

can you tell the difference in E allel of a ER and a ewh which is dominant white? especially if it is 2 doses. also 2 doses of dominant white on ER and e+

by 'turning' do you mean the bird reached its adult plumage and then started to change?


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:28 pm 
Offline
Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:45 pm
Posts: 53
ruff wrote:
i am going to play devil advocate so don't get offended. it also helps me when observing my birds.

triple comb can exist looking like a single comb...i can prove this and it is less obvious on a hen. it would not surprise me in the least if this was in the pits.


I know that peacomb is in the pits, I have seen it in other lines, but i can guarantee you that the peacombed chick's parents are both straight.
I would be interested in seeing some pictures of peacombs looking single. I have had peacombed fowl for a long long time, and have seen many many variations in it, but have always (i think) been able to tell pea from straight, and on the odd occasion where i had a good idea, but not 100%, i test mated, and found i was correct.

ruff wrote:
some silvers can look very gold. do you have birds that are custard for example?


I do not, and have never had. The 2 were golden duckwing roosters. Both were killed (1 by a fox, and the other drowned) before 8 months old. I have the sister to them, and intend to inbreed on her in the FAINT hope that it re-occurs (I doubt it, but she is a very good hen, and I would inbreed her regardless of the freaks in her closet).

ruff wrote:
can you tell the difference in E allel of a ER and a ewh which is dominant white? especially if it is 2 doses. also 2 doses of dominant white on ER and e+


I have no idea. I would assume that if dom white is on eR, then the wingtips would not be coloured, but in e+ and eWh the tips would be coloured. Assuming that dom white on e+, eR and eWh gives you a well coloured pile. I have read that 2 doses would not make much difference to 1 dose when using those E allels. Remember that I am basing all my assumptions about my birds on rec white. The only dealings I have had in Dom white have been in another breed that I have only just aquired, where black is the base colour, so the white presented is PURE white.
stupid me has no pictures of an eR white chicken, but I hope you can see in the below picture, that the dark markings on the head/face are replaced with pure white, while the lighter markings remain that yellowish down feather colour. The picture doesnt show it well, but it also makes the dark stripes down the back white. because the eR chickens dont have these dark stripes, the head appears the same yellowish colour.
Image


ruff wrote:
by 'turning' do you mean the bird reached its adult plumage and then started to change?


Yes. Up until last year, we had never done a white-to-white pairing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:51 pm 
here is a photo of my early stages in making pile pekins. i am much further advanced now and i still keep this comb type, pea, just for interest. the following rooster is dominant white on ER hence not a good example for making pile but there is a long way to go here with many crosses to any type of pekin i like just to improve type:

Image

this comb is almost indescernable to single comb on a hen.

any photos of your piles lawofnature.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:11 pm 
Offline
Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:45 pm
Posts: 53
ruff wrote:
this comb is almost indescernable to single comb on a hen.

any photos of your piles lawofnature.


damn, now thats a tidy peacomb

no piles. apart from that white rooster in the pic, the only other white rooster i have is his grandfather, who is much lighter in the brassiness.

I may try to get access to a dom white rooster at a later date, but I will try the rec white X wheaten (without much hope of success).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:15 pm 
Offline
Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:53 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Blue Mountains NSW
Lawofnature,

I do not believe that the bird's you describe are either recessive white, nor truly white at all.

The white claret that comes as a white bird with custard shoulders, back and has some stripes in the saddle and hackle shows a similar pattern to the furness (ie white breasted custard furness). Just change the colours and you will see what I mean. likewise the female often come that same way, while with some fawn and pink on the breast and wings.

I have crossed these to a spangle and got tri-coloured splashes (very pretty).

I have also seen them crossed with blacks to produce bassies, hence further evidence of the furness colour pattern.

Furthermore, you would be more likely to get a pile coloured bird by crossing to a partridge than a wheaten as you would have to use a wheaten without a recessive to the white furness. Many American strains of light red, clarets, and kelso, for instance and even travellers have a recessive gene for the white in them, so you are likely to get light reds and whites, nothing else.

I might just say that there are some very good piles getting about at the moment. They are essentially clarets with 1/256 parts partridge pile in them. I originated the colour in Clarets myself. They are a deep bloodwing with a white tailed wheaten hen.

But good luck trying.

Cheers Doc Swayne.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:40 pm 
here is a hen with a pea comb. the comb is thicker and usually not held up. this hen is moulting so her comb is not full:

Image

this little hen is not dominant white. i have not tested her to see if it is recessive white. she is wheaten bred.

Image


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:53 pm 
Offline
Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:56 pm
Posts: 660
Location: at the next show stop
i breed my pile leg horns from dom white male over brown females got great pile roos and chicks out of them

bg
a day without poultry is like a life without sun :catch:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:18 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:20 pm
Posts: 226
Location: Victor Harbor, SA
Hi,

Just out of interest, the Silver Grey Dorking rooster was put in with the pen of ISA browns and Hylines and I immediately got Pile Dorking cock's with 5 toes. Just out of interest thought I'd share that. May help?

Jodie

_________________
.o0O0o.-DORKINGLY ENTHUSED-BESOTTED BY BIG BEAUTIFUL BIRDS-.o0O0o.
I keep Hamburgs, Australorp, Blue Laced Gold Wyandotte, and Daughter has Belgian D'Uccle Blue MilleFleur! Helping to preserve the Dorking. http://www.dorkingjo.webs.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:52 am 
got any photos? strange you should have got all silvers, dirty white more.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Creating Pile
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:09 am 
lawofnature you might find this discussion which has just startedon @thecoop very interesting:

http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthrea ... w=1#UNREAD

sounds very similar to what you have observed.


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
©2004-2014 Backyardpoultry.com. Content rights reserved
freestone