Backyard Poultry Forum • View topic - type or Colour frist?

Backyard Poultry Forum

Chickens, waterfowl & all poultry - home of exhibition & backyard poultry in Australia & New Zealand
Login with a social network:
It is currently Mon May 25, 2020 5:51 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

What frist?
Type Before Colour 86%  86%  [ 32 ]
Colour before type 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Both 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Type 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Colour 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 37
Author Message
 Post subject: type or Colour frist?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:29 pm 
Offline
Swan
Swan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:18 pm
Posts: 3555
Location: Hunter Valley
Hi all,
Just starting to pen up my birds for show season, Sorting out the last of the show team, and this has came to my mind. What would you do as a breeder if the bird had the correct colour and wrong type, or the correct type and correct colour But missing a bit? and then what would you do as a Judge?
I'm interested in hearing others Point of view on this topic.

This could have been placed in Breeding, or here, I'll let the mods fix it up if its in the wrong area.

_________________
Cheers Ben Walkom - Breeder and Exhibitor of Partridge Wyandotte (Bantam) and Blue Partridge Wyandotte (Bantams)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:02 pm 
Offline
Fiesty Fowl
Fiesty Fowl
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:02 pm
Posts: 1192
Location: Rosewood Qld
Hi Ben

Type comes first type come second and type comes third then maybe we think about colour.

A wise old breed said once that you build a house first before you call in the painter and decorator. Live by this and you can't go wrong.

Same as some guys who get picky about the weight of bantams. I look at type first when judging - knock out all the birds that don't conform to type. Then I might start looking at size and weight and then colour.

If you go the other way you end up with birds that might be small but have no type at all

_________________
Geoff
http://www.qagppbp.yolasite.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:06 pm 
Offline
Swan
Swan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:18 pm
Posts: 3555
Location: Hunter Valley
Thanks Geoff, that's the way I was thinking as well type before Colour, It's Number 1 in the Points. Still Interested in hearing a few others on this topic.

_________________
Cheers Ben Walkom - Breeder and Exhibitor of Partridge Wyandotte (Bantam) and Blue Partridge Wyandotte (Bantams)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:09 pm 
Offline
Old Mother Goose
Old Mother Goose
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 11:44 pm
Posts: 6353
Location: western sydney,nsw
without type you have a pretty coloured chook :) to quote terry wibble, first you build the barn then paint it :D cheers pam

_________________
JAPS ARE REAL CHOOKS (DON'T BELIEVE THE KNOCKERS)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:17 pm 
Offline
Swan
Swan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:18 pm
Posts: 3555
Location: Hunter Valley
Thank you Pam as well. There is a few ways it could be as well, I'm Not 99% worried about the weight of the birds, first of all I want to have the correct colour and type on the birds and then I can worry about the weight, as Long as they are between the two weights, I'm happy, Just try and Keep them the right type and colour and Size and then I can do this Weight stuff.

_________________
Cheers Ben Walkom - Breeder and Exhibitor of Partridge Wyandotte (Bantam) and Blue Partridge Wyandotte (Bantams)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:31 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:14 pm
Posts: 141
Type makes the breed, colour then makes the variety of that breed

Keith

_________________
EPA of NSW Inc Judge HF & SF
Modern1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 am 
Offline
Swan
Swan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:18 pm
Posts: 3555
Location: Hunter Valley
Thanks Keith,
its good to read it from a EPA Judge, On this area, what would you do if there is a bent toe but the bird is still correct type and colour?

_________________
Cheers Ben Walkom - Breeder and Exhibitor of Partridge Wyandotte (Bantam) and Blue Partridge Wyandotte (Bantams)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:25 am 
Offline
Superior Bird
Superior Bird
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:03 am
Posts: 3148
Location: Crossfield, AB, CANADA!
I agree, type has to come first EXCEPT when you are developing a new colour for a breed. Then colour has to come first with type a close second. You can never get the new colour to stabilize if you don't concentrate on it as the most important thing in the first part of the breeding program. You really have to keep type in mind as you do it though, or it will just be a pretty chook with no connection to the breed you want it to be (like Pam said).

I have included lacing in my interpretation of the word colour as I think it goes the same for lacing. If you only concentrate on the type of a laced bird and don't pay enough attention to the lacing it doesn't go well. If you keep breeding poorly laced birds with beautiful type together, you will still end up with poorly laced birds.

Just my opinion of coarse.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:15 am 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:14 pm
Posts: 141
Hi Ben
Bent toes: Any toes that are turned or badly crooked are listed as a general disqualification. I know a lot of breeds these days are rolling their inside and/or outside toes. Some heavy breeds also have a tendancy to have the centre toe a little bent around however all toes should always be straight. Always remember to assess each bird as an overall package though.

Cheers

_________________
EPA of NSW Inc Judge HF & SF
Modern1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:16 am 
Offline
Prime Pekin
Prime Pekin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:48 am
Posts: 3292
If you are making a new colour in say Pekins, and all the genetic material is already available within the breed then colour is the first consideration, you should already have the type.
If you need to out cross perhaps more concentration on type is needed, but type is easier to set by general selection than some of the complex colours.
David


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:54 am 
"Pudding or pie for tea said I"
"Both said Jane quite bold and plain"

Don't you just look (or aim) for the best you can get in both?


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:03 am 
Offline
Wise One
Wise One
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:47 pm
Posts: 2568
Location: North-East Victoria
Quite true Chicory. Neither should be forgotten when selecting birds.

It is hard though for some breeds, for instance Frizzles, "Curl of feather" has more points than type :hmmm: Colour also has the same score as type.

A colour blind judge would be a really good experiment. To have a line up of birds and see which they would pick, they would not be biased towards any colour.

Nick

_________________
A backyard farmer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:33 pm 
type before colour except when you are breeding a new colour or to improve colour. i will often choose a bird for type and a bird for colour. in a colour line up for judging it is silly to choose a bird for type alone, it is a balance. often the coloured birds (eg pekins) are nowhere near the type for blacks or whites. but then the coloured birds can be as good as blacks or whites but never make the grade because they are coloured and many judges refuse to believe that a coloured bird can be as good as the boggo standard colour, or perhaps the judge does not want to have to defend his decision.

if i were judging something like millifluer pekins colour would be very high on the agenda. i would not regard a mottled black red as a millie fluer. hence i would be perhaps judging on colour. but then i am not a judge and most likely never will be as i am unfortunatly of the lesser sex.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:50 pm 
Offline
Fiesty Fowl
Fiesty Fowl
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:02 pm
Posts: 1192
Location: Rosewood Qld
[quote="coopslave"]I agree, type has to come first EXCEPT when you are developing a new colour for a breed. Then colour has to come first with type a close second. /quote]


I am not sure about this as to me if you don't watch type when creating a new colour you'll just end up with a pretty bird that has no rellevance to any breed ( perhaps that is what a lot are all ready doing ) :cry: :cry:

Please forgive my nasty remark but it is how I feel about many of the new colours and worse still the created breeds. So many of them don't even look like the photo's in the standards

_________________
Geoff
http://www.qagppbp.yolasite.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:51 pm 
Offline
Champion Bird
Champion Bird
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:59 pm
Posts: 811
Location: The Tablelands FNQ
Personally, I feel it's a both answer. Why? Well because if someone is showing me a bird that is supposed to be (using Ruff's example) a millifluer pekin, then I want it to look like a millifluer pekin. It's the same with dogs. My border collie is a blue merle border collie on paper and he sure as hell looks like one. Sure, if I did table top showing with him, he probably wouldn't win next to a good old black and white or even a chocolate and white because of his colour but at least he fits the description for his breed and his colour.

Granted, in showing, colour generally isn't worth the same amount as type which gives type more importance. But if you're going to show a bird and say that it's one thing, then it should look like that. So a millifluer should look like a millifluer.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
©2004-2014 Backyardpoultry.com. Content rights reserved
freestone