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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:12 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:04 am 
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Day old Chick
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BeatenEgg wrote:
Is Kelso an Oxford strain or American?



kelso is the name of a person who bred a number of lines of fowl in america. the only person who would no the exact breeding would be walter kelso,this can also be said for anyone who breeds gamefowl.

The fowl he bred were most likely english and irish in origin, in later times fowl called kelso type can be found all over the world it's only a name people give to that type, usually white or yellow legged reds,you can really called them what you like english or american it's up to the individual what they believe they are.

Question/point: If you took English fowl to china would they then become chinese game ?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:11 am 
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Junior Champion Bird
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chickenman2 wrote:
BeatenEgg wrote:
Is Kelso an Oxford strain or American?





Question/point: If you took English fowl to china would they then become chinese game ?



Well said chickenman2........


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:23 am 
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Junior Champion Bird
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chickenman2 wrote:
BeatenEgg wrote:
Is Kelso an Oxford strain or American?



kelso is the name of a person who bred a number of lines of fowl in america. the only person who would no the exact breeding would be walter kelso,this can also be said for anyone who breeds gamefowl.

The fowl he bred were most likely english and irish in origin, in later times fowl called kelso type can be found all over the world it's only a name people give to that type, usually white or yellow legged reds,you can really called them what you like english or american it's up to the individual what they believe they are.

Question/point: If you took English fowl to china would they then become chinese game ?



you wouldn't be the man with the D/wings would you ...ha


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:46 am 
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chickenman2 wrote:
Question/point: If you took English fowl to china would they then become chinese game ?


Its quite common, to name a couple close to home:
* Chinese langshans came to australia from china and became Australian Langshans
* English Orpingtons came to Australia from England and became Australian Orpingtons (Australorps)

I was under the impression that it was the Romans that brought their fowls to England, in which case they should be called "Old Roman Fowls". But in all seriousness you can debate and argue a lot about names, but ultimately its the bird we enjoy. As the old saying goes, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:04 pm 
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chickenman2 wrote:
BeatenEgg wrote:
Is Kelso an Oxford strain or American?



kelso is the name of a person who bred a number of lines of fowl in america. the only person who would no the exact breeding would be walter kelso,this can also be said for anyone who breeds gamefowl.

The fowl he bred were most likely english and irish in origin, in later times fowl called kelso type can be found all over the world it's only a name people give to that type, usually white or yellow legged reds,you can really called them what you like english or american it's up to the individual what they believe they are.

Question/point: If you took English fowl to china would they then become chinese game ?


Welcome to the forum Chickenman :hiya:

Seems like you fit straight in to the discussions, it almost like youve always been here :wink:

As Andy points out above, breeds often adopt a local name. The derivation of the breed is often based on a slight but undamental change to the standard. You would have to decide which standard the Chinese were going to use for their interpretation of the breed, and if they took one different form the British OEG standard then they might rightly develop a CHinese Game breed.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Andy Vardy wrote:
chickenman2 wrote:
Question/point: If you took English fowl to china would they then become chinese game ?


Its quite common, to name a couple close to home:
* Chinese langshans came to australia from china and became Australian Langshans
* English Orpingtons came to Australia from England and became Australian Orpingtons (Australorps)

I was under the impression that it was the Romans that brought their fowls to England, in which case they should be called "Old Roman Fowls". But in all seriousness you can debate and argue a lot about names, but ultimately its the bird we enjoy. As the old saying goes, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".



When the Romans arrived in England they found the brittons had there own fowls, a smallish type fowl, in weight they would have been 3-4lb. much like the weights of the early type English & Spanish game fowl.

I think the Roman type fowl was much more like the dorking & some of the other 5 toed breeds...

Cheers Andy good to have you take part.....


Last edited by wineglass on Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:10 pm 
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Day old Chick
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Quote:
wineglass wrote:
Its quite common, to name a couple close to home:
* Chinese langshans came to australia from china and became Australian Langshans
* English Orpingtons came to Australia from England and became Australian Orpingtons (Australorps)

I was under the impression that it was the Romans that brought their fowls to England, in which case they should be called "Old Roman Fowls". But in all seriousness you can debate and argue a lot about names, but ultimately its the bird we enjoy. As the old saying goes, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".


yes i agree the point i was making in answer to Beaten egss question is it's up to the individual what they believe they are, if you take fowl to a country or region and want to name the after that area, then it's up to you, thats why you have people calling fowl english, irish,american, spanish ect, all gamefowl just different names.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Well said Andy

My thoughts are that if a breed taken to another country and bred with lines from that country there, then the prodgeny is imported from it's New home to a third country then genitically it is a new breed and should be identified as such

I get so frustrated when I see so and so's XYZ breed being sold by someone who may or may not have bought from the breeder but still advertising as so & So's line

I bought Moderns fro a particular breeder and I have never out crossed but now in the forth generation where apart from selling me the original pair, this breeder has had no imputt. How can he be credited or discredited by the birds I sell.

My fowls are now for better or worse (probably worse) Geoff's line and should not be sold as anything else otherwise it is false advertising

Sorry for the rant and yes I am probably off the original topic

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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chickenman2 wrote:
Quote:
wineglass wrote:
Its quite common, to name a couple close to home:
* Chinese langshans came to australia from china and became Australian Langshans
* English Orpingtons came to Australia from England and became Australian Orpingtons (Australorps)

I was under the impression that it was the Romans that brought their fowls to England, in which case they should be called "Old Roman Fowls". But in all seriousness you can debate and argue a lot about names, but ultimately its the bird we enjoy. As the old saying goes, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".


yes i agree the point i was making in answer to Beaten egss question is it's up to the individual what they believe they are, if you take fowl to a country or region and want to name the after that area, then it's up to you, thats why you have people calling fowl english, irish,american, spanish ect, all gamefowl just different names.



But we all know that the only true type American gamefowl is the roundhead that carries the jap (shamo) blood....


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:31 pm 
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Day old Chick
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Quote:
wineglass wrote:
But we all know that the only true type American gamefowl is the roundhead that carries the jap (shamo) blood....


i dont want to drag this on. i was just answering beaten eggs question "are Kelso oxford or american strain" this was a very broad question and again only my opinion but up to the individual what they believe the fowl they have are and what they want to name them, that's why we have so many types and names for gamefowl.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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rwood wrote:
Welcome to the forum Chickenman

Seems like you fit straight in to the discussions, it almost like youve always been here


Welcome also! Perhaps you're like dozens of other readers out there; read the threads for years and decided its time to be interact; I read actively for years before signing up to Backyard Poultry.

I would agree the Kelso were of Irish and English decent developed in the US.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:07 pm 
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Champion Bird
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I read rwood that when the romans arrived in brittain they found that the locals already kept fowls for sport.With most gamefowl people you will find the name of a strain is there simply so you no what to expect in colour type and temprement as although many strains have been bred for several generations by others they should still retain certian varietal traits associated with that line.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Are they American or Oxford? I think that they, and many other strains, are both! The two terms are not mutualy exclusive. Yes, not all Oxford OEG are American, and not all American Game are straight English, but there are a lot that are.

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