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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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I'm sure the answer to this must be well known and it must have been done heaps of times - I believe a silver laced Wyandotte hen with a Gold laced Wyandotte rooster will give gold pullets and silver cockerels- is that right?

I have a SLW hen and a Buff laced Wyandotte rooster (buff with white lacing). Will I get buff laced pullets? (and maybe some silver and plain white cockerels?)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:34 pm 
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Champion Bird
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A quick question.. when you say buff laced, do you mean it was created by gold laced crossed with dominant white, or is it actually a splash laced gold, bred from blue or splash laced gold wyandottes? (so the lacing is not actually white, but is a very light blue). In my experience they don't actually look that different. If you are not sure, a photo of it might help...


Poulet wrote:
I believe a silver laced Wyandotte hen with a Gold laced Wyandotte rooster will give gold pullets and silver cockerels- is that right?


Yes gold pullets, but the male offspring will be silver split for gold (so carrying one of each gene).


Here is a thread discussing the confusion between buff laced and splash laced gold. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8003624&hilit=buff+laced+wyandotte

Here is a thread re buff lacing that has some photos (I see you posted in it too) viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7995493&hilit=buff+laced+wyandotte&start=30

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Thanks, Michelle
I didn't breed the rooster but I hatched him from bought-in eggs and the others in the hatch were white or what looked like fairly ordinary gold laced (although one was a bit washed out) and my rooster does have one or two hackle feathers with a black mark, so I'm guessing it's a blue/splash gene rather than dominant white.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Hmm, so if the parents of the roo were laced and one was not dom white, then your birds will breed as a regular gold and silver cross. so you would get gold pullets and silver split for gold cockerels, which is by the way a sex link cross (so you can tell the pullets from the cockerels at hatching).

Then you have the colour of the lacing.. As you said you have a regular SLW (black lacing) and you roo is most likely splash (which is a double dose of the blue gene) you will get 100% blue laced offspring. I have typed out this info in more detail on my website (link in my signature). I would copy and paste it, but I'm on my phone.

So your pullets will be blue laced gold and your cockerels blue laced silver split for gold.

This all of course relies on the roo being a splash.. Were his hatch mates solid white, i.e not laced? Were they both gold and silver? Just that finding recessive white chicks in gold lines is pretty uncommon (but not impossible).

I guess you will have to hatch some and see! :biggrin:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:02 am 
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Thanks, Michelle and especially for the link to your website. I found the genetics section fascinating and also easy to understand. I do struggle with the sex-linked colour gene in birds because I have just enough knowledge of human genetics to be continually tripped up by the females being hemizygous and the males being the ones with two sex chromosomes - I have to write it down every time to remind myself which is the male/female.
So my "buff laced" boy must be Bl/Bl (giving the splash or white-looking lacing colour) and either s+/s+ (pure gold) or S+/s+ (gold split for silver).
If we assume the latter, then could he have had a male sibling that was Bl/Bl, S+/S+ (yes I think so) and would that look like white all over? (again, yes, I think so.)
I have a photo of the white boy on BYP somewhere but he really did look to me like pure white all over. Without any knowledge of the genetics, I would have called him a white Wyandotte, but I'm definitely no expert.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:15 am 
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And yes, of course I want to hatch some, although I'm aware that with the number that I'm likely to hatch, the statistics (although not the genetics) can be very misleading.
I have hatched one chick from the female SLW - currently 6 days old and looks like a SLW chick except with a bit of a gold-looking patch on the head and shoulder, and I'm not 100% sure whether the dad was my buff Wyandotte (or a Welsummer who's a real Don Juan). The chick has a rose comb, but since I believe that's dominant, all it proves is that his mother is his mother.
I have just a couple of eggs in the incubator that I'm sure are from this Wyandotte pairing, so I'm hoping they are fertile. (I think this rooster's fertility is not that flash, at least compared to the Welsummer.)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:27 pm 
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Golden Phoenix
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If you pop up some photos, the expert 'dotte people can have a look and provide comments.

Also, we just like seeing photos :)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:56 pm 
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Poulet wrote:
If we assume the latter, then could he have had a male sibling that was Bl/Bl, S+/S+ (yes I think so) and would that look like white all over? (again, yes, I think so.)
I have a photo of the white boy on BYP somewhere but he really did look to me like pure white all over. Without any knowledge of the genetics, I would have called him a white Wyandotte, but I'm definitely no expert.


Splash laced silver wyandottes don't appear white all over.. I have attached a photo of one below. This photo is taken from cottagegirl's gallery; I have since bought this fellow off her. He is actually a splace laced silver split for gold.

I would tend to think that is there was solid white birds that definitely came from the same parents, then there must be more than blue breeding going on. Your eggs weren't from several pens were they?

Poulet wrote:
So my "buff laced" boy must be Bl/Bl (giving the splash or white-looking lacing colour) and either s+/s+ (pure gold) or S+/s+ (gold split for silver).


Roosters can't be gold split for silver.. they have to be silver split for gold (that is they appear silver, as it is the dominant gene).

infoaddict wrote:
If you pop up some photos, the expert 'dotte people can have a look and provide comments.


I think it is definitely time for some photos; that way we can work out if it is buff laced, or splash laced gold.

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:22 pm 
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OK, here's some pictures of the "buff laced" (or maybe blue/splash -laced) rooster. Also in the background you can see the unrelated SLW hen. I think maybe I resized them a little too small, so I've edited the second one bigger. These two photos were taken this last weekend.
Image
Image

And here's a picture of his sibling, the apparently white cockerel, taken about four months ago.
Image

And here is a photo of the white, another sibling who looks like gold-laced, and the unrelated SLW, all as youngsters about January this year.
Image
Don't get confused by the SLW - she has completely different parents, but all the others are supposedly from the same breeding pen (I bought the eggs).
I look forward to any comments, thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:00 pm 
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Your Rooster is almost certainly a Buff laced. Being White Lacing from Dominant white (1 dose) on gold feather.

The white cockerel could be a recessive white, or if he is his full sibling, then it may indeed be a double dose of dominant white has covered all gold as well as black. From my limited experience, the whites from double Dominant white still show some gold....

Your black laced gold, or GLW, appears to be from a line not aiming at exhibition Gold Laced. The black is washed out and there is no green/purple sheen. I woudl think she may be from a buff laced pen, with no white gene. She may be frm a Buff laced over a Gold laced which would throw 50% this light black lacing and 50% buff laced.

So, 'from the same pen' could be a pen including a Buff laced rooster over both buff laced & gold laced females. Buff laced breeders often put Gold laced in the pens so as to breed a higher percentage of Buff laced.

Thats my guess.

Raf

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Last edited by rwood on Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:21 pm 
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rwood wrote:
Your black laced gold, or GLW, appears to be from a line not aiming at exhibition Gold Laced. The black is washed out and there is no green/purple sheen. I woudl think she may be from a buff laced pen, with no white gene. She may be frm a Buff laced over a Gold laced which would throw 50% this light black lacing and 50% buff laced.

Thanks, Raf. The apparent GLW chicks were very washed out looking. I didn't keep them to maturity - they just didn't look "pretty" to my uneducated eye.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:28 pm 
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rwood wrote:
Your Rooster is almost certainly a Buff laced. Being White Lacing from Dominant white (1 dose) on gold lacing.

So, golly, if it's not blue/splash, which I really thought it was going to be, back to my original question - what are the genetic possibilities from this Buff laced rooster over the unrelated SLW hen?
(So far I have only one chick, so I'm thinking I need to know the theory, I can't just hatch a hundred and see what they turn out to be :lol: )


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Are there any tiny bits of grey in the rooster's tail?

I'm just wondering if the washed out black may actually be a very dark blue.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:34 pm 
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The only litttle bits of black/dark grey I've found on the rooster are a couple of hackle feathers with a black mark.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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CH07,

The rooster just doesnt look like a splash laced to me. He doesnt have the Splash laced hackle (IMO). If he is, it isnt like my line. And there are almost no splashes.

To be fair we need a close up picture of him to be sure. But he screams buff laced to me.

That having been established, the rest falls into place. That GOld laced looks to me lke a blue bred black. But, the same washed out black applies to buff laced I would think. Again, to be fair, I havent bred buff laced until this year, but I imagine the black wouldnt be as dark as a pure black laced.

Also, a blue to blue mating that produces splash, would (in my experience again) not produce such a dark blue as you propose.

Interesting...

Poulet, what did the breeder say the pen was made up of?
Raf

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