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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:29 pm
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Location: North Coast NSW
the point of this post is to show the variance in OE in the atkinson era within britain and australia. Hopefully members can take a look and comment on the fowls acceptability in the show pen now in this country. Hopefully it helps clarify what types of fowl were entered and won and we may come out the other side a little wiser. Ive chosen the atkinson era as he is held in high regard by the present show fraternity so its an era that should be easily commented on for those concerned. All the fowls owners have long since passed.
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a hen bred and owned by HA 1930s
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:00 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird

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Unfortunately mate, in the show world the Standard has been accepted as being that there should be only 1 type. Every bird should look the same apparently and act the same. I had 15 oxforfds entered today in a ag show today and all were disqualified. The judge couldn't understand why a muff cock had a different body style to one of my reds who of course was a finer style.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:29 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird

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Location: North Coast NSW
im happy to have the discussion openly on here and hear those with different views to mine on why fowls of the styles pictured are or are not included. Simply saying its carlisle or american really isnt appropriate when the fowls pictured predate any controversy over those subjects. Thats the point. Hopefully others contribute and we can move away from blanket disqualifications and have decisions made that can be backed up with sound reasoning. I honestly think the process could not only be helpful, but also relevant to any breed of poultry


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:29 pm
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Location: North Coast NSW
heres some australian fowl of the same era
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The above photos are in Pegawl's gallery .Please give credit when posting photos owned by another person. D.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird

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Location: North Coast NSW
the last ones. Notice the ike tutty muff line as written about by marshall in the king of fowls.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:13 am 
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Golden Phoenix
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Location: Tarago, near Goulburn
Now that is interesting. The back line of the Australian birds - one of the major characteristics of the breed in my eyes - is almost a straight line from head to tail, with the tail almost rising suddenly from that line, while the English birds have much more curvature and break-up of that line, and the tail curving back up again slightly less suddenly.

I know this is just that selection of scans that's available, so may not be completely representative, but it is indeed interesting. Would like to see more pics of the Australian hens if at all possible as some of the the English hens (not henny roosters) seem to be showing almost a flat back, but that one hen in the Australian group definitely has a much more sloping back, again seeming to aim for that single unbroken line.

Thanks for that! Very nice work in scanning and displaying.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:17 am 
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Showy Hen
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Pearl I like that Garlick bird,thats what the Mcnight bird looked like of my fathers,how would he fit in now Oxford or carlisle ,this topic is agood one to discuss cause I have four colours all vary in station and feather to the next all bred pure Atkins so if I want to breed to the standard I would have to basically ruin there characteristics to get an Ideal in either Oxford or Australian standard,I would prefer just to have the variation and enjoy what i have.you can see the variation in what my father kept in the sixties in the gallery they were all different styles but were judged on indevidual merit back then.
I would love to see variation allowed, Pearl your doing good things with this topic,look at those magnificent birds you have put up love to see them now in some ones yard bet they would all take yer fingers off A!.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird

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Location: North Coast NSW
shorty, if we could get some clarification on why these fowls are in or out it would help all of us. Unfortunately not much has been said yet.
Infoaddict,what conclusions do you draw from your observations on these types being in or out now?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:01 pm 
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Golden Phoenix
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:39 am
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Location: Tarago, near Goulburn
Depends on one's definition of "in" or "out". I don't go to shows very often and don't know breeders in person, so all I've got to go on is what I see here in the forums, and on other online locations. And I see all these varieties in the here'n'now ... so the only conclusion I can draw is "there's been variety in OEG for a VERY long time!!".

Sorry, probably not very helpful :rofl:

I couldn't even give a preference, really ... if it doesn't lay an interestingly-coloured egg or is worthwhile eating, I'm afraid I'm not really fussed one way or another. I don't tend to read Standards except for interest's sake :)

HOWEVER, if you pushed me to make a judgement purely on visuals, and without specific reference to Standards etc ... I like a chook to have some curves in it. The straight line from head to tail unnerves me. I like the ones where you can clearly see the join of the neck with the body, and the body to the tail, without the angles being too harsh or sharp. Looking back over the pics, and given they are b&w, I suspect I'm leaning to the Garlick bird, as mentioned by Shorty.

Whether that's a "good" or "proper" OEG, I really wouldn't be able to say.

But the illustrations are very interesting :)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:21 am 
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Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird

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Location: North Coast NSW
my defintion of in or out on this subject is, judged in an OE class or disqualified as wrong class. What youve said is actually very helpful,there has been a wide variance in OE for a long time.Wether there good or not,well they won and obviously the judge thought highly of them. There are birds there that people of any OE camp are going to have time for,and others there not fussed on. Thats fine,its personal taste. What i would like to hear is there any that someone who judges now would put out as "wrong class" and why. Hopefully a few who show/judge OE classes will participate.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:54 pm 
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Showy Hen
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Pearl I think if I benched that garlic bird in either Oxford ,royal or A gricultural today, I may be in trouble,dont think he would fit in on first impression.He would have been wellcome in anybodys yard at the time he was benched I bet the Williams pile could have just come from the British National, just the same bird as they are now.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Showy Hen
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Location: OUTBACK NSW.
Pearl I see Wal Scott brought out some Tasselled pile in 1911 in one of his 1964 flyers.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:33 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:29 pm
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Location: North Coast NSW
post it up,id be interested to see it. Its a shame no one else seems interested in the thread, i hoped we may have made some move forward.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:05 am 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Location: Yarra Valley--Victoria
Pearl eye, as someone who admires both types of birds i believe from what i see winning at most shows now, and mind you i am no expert, i think the woods bird, the garlic bird, the stenzel bird and the iredell and ollis bird would probably still fair pretty well today in oeg classes.
Nearly all the others would be pipped as being in the wrong class.
Most judges are on the lookout for a bird with a shorter back, tighter plumage and more pronounced chest.
I believe there is probably to much emphasis put on these features, today.
There has always been a certain degree of variation amongst the different strains, and this should still be taken into account when judging the fowl.
They were never all cast out of the same mould, even back in the old days in my belief, and therefore there should not be a right and a wrong type, they are all oeg in my book.


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