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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Gallant Game
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Back to topic variance in OE; can you read the foreword in Reg Tutty's "My life in the fancy" this was kindly penned by Athol Pengilly. Things have certainly changed in a short period of time you don't need numbers to be influential! Both these breeder had followers but were their fowl what the current APS followers are striving for? Or is this a definate sign of the change I've mentioned occurring.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Personally I think you cant go past Senator's RR Gallery to see OEG at their best in this country or the world for that matter.

http://gallery.backyardpoultry.com/memb ... enators-rr


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:52 pm 
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Great Game
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Hey people this thread was meant to be about acceptance. Whichever style you fancy and whatever you want to call it there are clearly a range of opinions out there.

Lets not slip into a debate that is not about acceptance.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:10 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Guy Fahey wrote:

The reality is that the new APS is in place and nothing is going to change in the next decade.
If you wish to be involved in showing poultry you are going to be subject to that standard -simple as that!
There is no Carlisle ,no Oxford .Just OEG and American Game-that is the reality!
Nothing is going to change that in the next 10 years at least.
Bark as loud as you will but that is how it is!


Denisl wrote:
Maybe a comparison of the OEG standard ( which is claimed by some as the Oxford standard) against the bird in question should raise some areas of concern for you.


Denis and Guy, im glad you have continued the discussion in this thread and you are obviously fairly keen to have the APS2 held up as the standard to be used for all breeds. How about we take a look at what it actually has to say on this subject.

Pearl Eye wrote:
The oxford standard of 1920 as reproduced below,aims to preserve,unaltered,the old breed of english gamefowl. Although created in a variety of ways,old english game bantams should,in every respect,be breed as true miniatures of the old english game fowls.


Pearl Eye wrote:
Game fowl were exhibited at the earliest poultry shows but these birds were soon transformed,by fashion, into what became known as Modern Game. In the 1880's there was a revival of interest in the original pit type fowls. Clubs and classes for old english game,as they were now named, sprang up and interest in the breed has never faltered.



Now if theres something ive missed, our theres something in these statements you disagree with feel free to point it out because it seems fairly clear what standard is in the APS2 and what the aims of the standard and its origins are


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:47 pm 
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Wyandotte Warrior
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The last post demonstrates what Guy mentioned a few posts back. I quote "The reason a lot of people have dropped off is the fact that the topic has been done to death"

Round and round we go. Are we all getting just a little giddy?!!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Champion Bird
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pepa wrote:
Personally I think you cant go past Senator's RR Gallery to see OEG at their best in this country or the world for that matter.
I spend a lot of time in the 'Oxford' galleries, and Senators RR birds are stunning!

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not dead yet, but a hell of alot closer than i used to be


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Yes there has been a South Australian Oxford OEG Club formed.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:08 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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we probably are denis. Its completely beyond me how we hear that the oxford standard is "claimed" to be our standard or that it is not included in the APS. I realise you probably dont own any of the other texts that get mentioned to cross reference but i would think that you would own the APS standards.Have a read of your copy,if its been missed on earlier reads fair enough. Its not your breed of choice and personally i couldn't just quote the standard or opening statements of breeds i dont own or have a passing interest in. I'll be more than happy to move on in the discussion. It would be extremely helpful to all the OE threads if the actual standards origin,source and purpose was finally acknowledged and we could all agree on the fundamentals. :pray


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:59 am 
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Proud Rooster
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Guy Fahey wrote:
The reality is that the new APS is in place and nothing is going to change in the next decade.
If you wish to be involved in showing poultry you are going to be subject to that standard -simple as that!
There is no Carlisle ,no Oxford .Just OEG and American Game-that is the reality!


Well said guy!
I have oeg for close to 20 years now (seems like a life time for a youngish person) and am considering new challenge - American game are a fine looking fowl, I may have to get into them and breed a few up for the shows :-) I am guessing the class numbers willl be quite small or non existant for a while so it wouldn't hurt to get a few birds out there for the poultry community to have a look at.

Has anyone considererd putting up a decent amount of prizemoney at a show? I bet if that was on offer there would be quite a few Americans come out of the woodwork!

People will argue about varience in oeg in this country for well past my lifetime but here is an interesting fact to consider: Some of the top breeders these "oxford" folk tend to worship as gods, sell and promote their fowl as oxfords to one lot of devoted followers and Americans to others.

So which name for the fowl is correct?? Certainly is something to consider.

* note edit by Moderator *


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:37 am 
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Gallant Game
Gallant Game

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WILDnFREE wrote:
Guy Fahey wrote:
The reality is that the new APS is in place and nothing is going to change in the next decade.
If you wish to be involved in showing poultry you are going to be subject to that standard -simple as that!
There is no Carlisle ,no Oxford .Just OEG and American Game-that is the reality!
Well said guy!
I have oeg for close to 20 years now (seems like a life time for a youngish person) and am considering new challenge - American game are a fine looking fowl, I may have to get into them and breed a few up for the shows :-) I am guessing the class numbers willl be quite small or non existant for a while so it wouldn't hurt to get a few birds out there for the poultry community to have a look at.

Has anyone considererd putting up a decent amount of prizemoney at a show? I bet if that was on offer there would be quite a few Americans come out of the woodwork!

People will argue about varience in oeg in this country for well past my lifetime but here is an interesting fact to consider: Some of the top breeders these "oxford" folk tend to worship as gods, sell and promote their fowl as oxfords to one lot of devoted followers and Americans to the folk that buy them for their historic intended purposes.

Guy
-We know the APS is not going to change; for at least 10 years but this will not hush current situation.
-To have your fowls subject to the Standard both breeder and judge must be competent with the standard.
-Oxford fowl are not a figment in anyone imagination the exist and are strong and growing in Australia.

WILDnFREE (by the way great user-name)
-Feel free to take up any challenge we're never to old; but have you asked yourself why clubs are not catering if these American are already out there in number to warrant inclusion into the APS.
-Money will not attract lovers of fowl to events unless "you're in it to win it"!
-No top breeder(s) push the Dual term Oxford to some and American to other as you suggest! Nor do followers worship fellow lovers of theses fowl, I can assure you they are very highly respected; but there is a vast difference between worshiping and respecting!

Can I suggest if you’re in doubt attend an Oxford show and you will definitely see Variance in OEG is alive and well accepted! Regardless where this show is held; UK, Ireland, Australia or South Africa!


Last edited by pedro73 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:27 am 
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Proud Rooster
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Wildn Free,I think it depends on the area you live in.There are very few,if any, American style game fowl exhibited in Southern NSW and Northern Victoria.I don't think I have seen any exhibited at any of the major Royals in the past 30 years.There used to be a few around the Goulburn area but last time I judged the show only a dozen or so were on display.Most fanciers prefer to keep the traditional /well recognized style of OEG which contain a strong influence from breeders such as Theo Gray in the bantams and Reg Tutty and Athol Pengilley in the standard fowl.
I was also thinking of getting a few Americans,the males are an eye catching bird in full feather but room and time have put that venture on hold for the time been.
Your idea of putting up some cash may bring a few out of the woodwork as it seems to work when clubs put on specials for other breeds.Hard to say, but it would appear on current evidence that this style will remain unpopular due to its connection with illegal activities that cannot be discussed in this forum.No doubt there will remain a small vocal minority who will persist with their chosen style of game birds (and they are free to call them what they like,be it Americans,Oxfords,Boonahs or Cessnocks or whatever) but I really can't see any big changes on the horizon based on the current state of play.Albury is hosting the OEG Club show in July where there will be roughly 900-1000 birds on display from across SE Aust,could be worth a visit.


Last edited by Guy Fahey on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:59 pm 
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Showy Hen
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Wildnfree,large cash prizes?
Deleted post as not relevant.

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OLD ENGLISH GAME BIRD FANCIER.


Last edited by SHORTY on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Gallant Game
Gallant Game

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Guy Fahey wrote:
Most fanciers prefer to keep the traditional /well recognized style of OEG which contain a strong influence from breeders such as Theo Gray in the bantams and Reg Tutty and Athol Pengilley in the standard fowl.

now that's a surprise. Is the Tutty fowl still the benchmark for exhibition OE breeders??

Guy Fahey wrote:
I was also thinking of getting a few Americans,the males are an eye catching bird in full feather

be sure to put a good dollop of of their blood into your exhibition lines like so many have done.

Guy Fahey wrote:
Albury is hosting the OEG Club show in July where there will be roughly 900-1000 birds on display from across SE Aust,could be worth a visit.

and what are they going to look like this year? A breed that is in constant evolution!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:25 pm 
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Great Game
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This thread is being locked so that BYP members and visitors can read it but there will be no further need for reports/moderation.

The history of various types of fowl has been discussed along with an accurate account of the options for exhibiting OEG in Australia today, if that is what you wish to do.

However, it does seem that little new is being added hence the decision to lock the thread.

Good luck to all who breed and admire OEG.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Great Game
Great Game

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BYP has been asked to unlock this topic to allow discussion of what is one of the most important breeds in the poultry fancy in Australia. We are not about stifling discussion, but OEG threads have often been troublesome. So some guidelines have been suggested and if these can not be followed then the thread will be locked again.

The following are the guidelines already in place

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8006900

Particularly, denigrating one style of fowl or those that breed them will not be allowed. Nor will constant statements or implications that any one style of OEG is more legitimate/proper than another. This includes statements along the lines that someone who embraces a particular style has seen the light, or that those who dont are somehow ignorant. There are good and bad examples of all styles of fowl but BYP does not support the view that some styles/strains/breeds are somehow more legitimate than others.

We also dont want to see criticism of current or past breeders and their efforts.

Please also try to post new and informative material. There is a strong view that these threads just end up going in circles or end up with re-stating the same old positions. If this becomes the case then the thread will be judged to have run out of steam.

Moderators dont have time to be constantly editing posts or dealing with reports so please make our job easier by treating each other and your contrasting opinions with respect. If this cant be achieved then we will ask you to continue the debate in an alternative venue.


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