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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Prime Pekin
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Hi,

I think these could be e+ wild type melanised Ml, Dark Dorkings are similar in colour.

I have bred similar colours before i got into purebred poultry.

Cheers

Christian

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Interested in Plymouth Rocks, Breeder of Light Barred Standard


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:02 am 
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Dapper Duck
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Thanks Christian,

After further research I reckon that's probably it. Some of my original stock also had Mh, with the red rather than salmon breast, although I think some may have also been on an eb base, with body colour continuous over the breast.

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:55 pm 
Wildman eb does not seem to turn up in the game birds, more e+. however now that you say that the body colour goes through the breast perhaps there is something else there. some of my thai hens have breasts the same colour as the backs. my camera is over with the chooks in the shed at the moment so I will take some photos of them and you can say if they are similar to what you have in mind.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:37 pm 
here is granddaughter:

Image
thai pullet by onlyruff, on Flickr

and grandmother:

Image
thai hen by onlyruff, on Flickr

both have the same colour in the breasts as in the the back.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:08 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Yes Ruff. That first pic of what I would have called a dark brown is what I'm refering to. Notice whatever is melanising gives a mostly black hackle similar to a Dark Cornish Indian.

Having just taken more notice of colour genetics I'm interested to hear that eb is rare amongst game breeds.

I thought this line was eb with a dose of S/-, so a silver version of your secong pic.

Image

Maybe I've a lot more to learn.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Beautiful colour,
Looks like a blue wheaten?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:08 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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All I can say is that she is from a long line of 'silver duckwing'. I didn't take much notice of hatch down colours and within the last few generations began selecting hens with more expression of silver and no salmon breasts. The males were phenotypically silver, with no sign of red, and more expression of silver across the shoulders.
Each generation had more widespread silver than the one before.

Here's another pullet, same line, from three years ago. She retains remnants of a salmon breast so appears e+ maybe e+/eb

Image

I assumed the later birds without coloured breasts were silver partridge - eb/eb. I have planned colour matings on this assumption to try to return to dark partridge birds

I'll be taking particular notice and scrutinising every chick's colour and patterns this season.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:33 pm 
I think they look very nice. I like silver but tend to go away from it where I am due to the red mud.

the last hen you put up maybe lacking autosomal red (AR) or may have reduce and one Mh - mahogany.

that last hen I have seen you photo of her before. I would need to see her in the flesh as photos are very hard sometimes to make judgement. perhaps at a guess I would say silver (obvious), wild type and without autosomal red and mahogany. there is perhaps a melanizer, possibly Ml in one dose which has gone into the breast area and causing the darker lacing along with Pg and Db. if this hen had full double doses of Ml, Db and Pg it would be double laced like an indian or triple laced like what is described as silver pencilled. because she has not the black hackle gene that the Indians have (I have forgotten it's name for the moment) the hackles are silver laced and you are seeing a finer lacing to the indian on the body. the Db gene has allowed the lacing to go to the breast whereas normally on the e+ bird you would have a salmon breast but because both Autosomal red and mahogany are missing you have a silver breast.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:54 am 
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Dapper Duck
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Wow, a lot of 'dice' at play there ruff. It's very interesting to know the colour genetics. Given the complexities of the recessive genes that line up to make the Malay physical type I think I have enough work to do just getting them right. Colours will be a bonus.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Love to see a photo of a mahogany Malay ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:33 pm 
I think someone would have to make it Birdienumnums...it would look red in genetics many genes are used in different ways to make the colours and patterns we see.

Wildman all these genes I mention are basic genes in poultry. Ml/Ml Pg/Pg Db/Db are the 3 gene pairs needed to make lacing. Db helps put colour other than salmon into the breast. autosomal red Ar is that background red like the salmon breast you see on a bird. Mh mahogany darkens autosomal red and gold. it does take a bit of study, memorizing and practise to learn but it is very useful.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Gallant Game
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If you had to call this colour/pattern a name what would any of you call it :?:

My guess would be blue duckwing or silver blue duckwing., or am I wrong :?:

Image
(Note: this photo belong to "Wildman" taken from his section gallery)


Last edited by chickenPox on Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Assist Admin
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The above photo belongs to wildman.

Please attribute any photo that you display if it doesn't belong to you. ;-)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:18 pm 
it does look blue but I am not sure it is. being a game where the pattern and colour is not important I would call it a silver duckwing but on a soft feather I would call it a crude silver pencilled.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Gallant Game
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Thanks Ruff,

If any of you are interested,
I have an old photo of an old Malay hen in my gallery section similar to this strain but without any blue..I also have a current pullet point of lay from same strain but no blue, I will mate her with a red wheaten/blue rooster this season and see what I get..."Wildman" I brought this up in case it's any help to map your search.


This old hen here.
ImageImage


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