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 Post subject: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Hatchling
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Where do I buy ISA Browns chickens in NSW? (Baida only sells 10,000 and above), and I only looking to buy around a 100 of them.


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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Make your own.It's more fun.

Rhode island red X Rhode Island white=ISA Brown....

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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Great Game
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Location: Hunter Valley
ozdrjohn wrote:
Where do I buy ISA Browns chickens in NSW? (Baida only sells 10,000 and above), and I only looking to buy around a 100 of them.

Cremona at Schofields


New England Poultry wrote:
Rhode island red X Rhode Island white=ISA Brown....

That's not an Isa Brown

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Quote:
That's not an Isa Brown

Matt


If it looks like a ISA brown and lays eggs like a ISA Brown and walks like a ISA Brown..Then It's a ISA Brown..

you say tomato I say tomater :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Or you can try here.... http://www.bondenterprises.com.au/bond_brown.htm

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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Sultry Swan
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No its not an ISA Brown. They can only be bred from the ISA parent stock not from any old RIR and RIW.

Bonds are good hens too, from much the same sort of sex-linked cross as an ISA Brown.

Lohmann's make one similar too. Also good layers.


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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Great Game
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New England Poultry wrote:
Rhode island red X Rhode Island white=ISA Brown....

RIR X RIW = RIR

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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I would rather have the RIR X RIR, but no they aren't Isa's. The commercials develop several strains of poultry as an ongoing exercise to develop the best F1 crosses they can, as far as minimal feed for maximum egg production. Isa browns of today aren't the same as Isa Browns of 5 years ago. Same with commercial meat birds. They are a continual development for the commercial market, just as your zuchinnis and sweet corn are continually getting supposedly better. The "recipe" for the Isa Brown is secret, and keeps changing with time.
People want Isa's because they want cheap eggs basically. At the very least, most people keep them in far better conditions than commerical layers are kept.


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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:36 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Quote:
RIR X RIW = RIR

Matt


No it = a brown layer like sussex X RIR= brown layer

RIR and RIW are totally different breeds..

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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:05 pm 
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Golden Phoenix
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Both the RI are part of the ISA Brown makeup, but they're not the only breeds. No-one knows the precise "recipe" except the "Institut de Selection Animale" (ISA, hence the name), and I have no doubt it's tweaked on a regular basis to ensure that 1. it continues to produce the highest number of eggs on the least amount of feed for longest possible period of time and 2. it can remain trademarked to the ISA.

Note that there are also ISA Whites and ISA Blacks; not used in Australia. I'd be fairly confident in saying the Whites (high proportion of Leghorn, probably) and Blacks (high proportion of Australorp) lay the white and cream eggs preferred in Europe, while the Browns (high proportion of RIR and/or Marans) lay the brown eggs preferred in Australia, and that would be the main differences.

Here's a couple of threads on the topic from previous years:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7989800
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7992768


Last edited by infoaddict on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Sultry Swan
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make your own what a stupid statement. an isa brown is a 7 breed crossed 11 ways if you have several million dallars you can make your own. i sell them as point of lay and have for years contact me on 0416 151 696 we sell and deliver birds between albury and sydney.
biadia also have white birds as well, not a common knowen fact. auctioneer

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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:16 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Here is an article on the history of Hypeco-CPI-Bovans commercial strains. Gives you a good idea of what original breeds were used in the early development of commercial layers & broilers.

The following Lohmann parent commercial layer article shows some of the various layer strains, & diagrams of the breeding pedigrees.

I would be surprised if the Rhode Island White breed was used in original development of these top white-tailed red sex-linked commercial layer strains. I think "RIW" is used by some as shorthand on phenotype for describing the pedigree crosses used. Never heard of them being top layers like the RIR, Australorps, Leghorns, etc.

Some other breeds used for developing commercial strains were New Hampshire Reds, Barred Plymouth Rocks, White Plymouth Rocks, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if White Rocks were the source of I - Dominant White & S - silver (& eb), in these white-tailed red brown layers. It could have been White Leghorns, but for the problems associated with crossing white eggshell layers with brown layers & the different E locus alleles needed. Going by Dr Okimoto's previous comments, these white-tailed red commercial parent birds are a mix of eb crossed with eWh.


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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Champion Bird
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I agree, The RIR some lay well and some don't (this year's breeding season one pullet is laying well and the over's not yet)
The RIW rose comb Clarke's line are laying eggs every day and big white eggs.This I think come's from the rose comb leghorn breed from the early days or the white Wyandotte breed.
Quote:
an isa brown is a 7 breed crossed 11 ways if you have several million dallars

You can get this ,but it well take some years and paper work.All the best. :thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:48 pm 
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Golden Phoenix
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I tend to assume there's Leghorn in the heritage of all three major laying mixes simply because Leggies are the premier laying purebreed birds and have been for a very long time. They're already light-bodied, have almost no broody tendencies, tend to lay most of the year around, lay a good-sized egg, and have excellent feed-to-egg conversion.

However, they lay white eggs, are as flighty as buggery, have huge combs, and you can't tell the boys from the girls at hatching.

All the other breeds would be to add in deep brown or cream/tinted brown eggs, calm them down so they coped with confinement, completely remove the broody instinct, improve the light response so they laid eggs all year around in artificial lighting, and add in sex-linking at hatching.

That's my assumption, anyway, coming at the ISAs from a commercial, rather than a breeding, perspective.

Quote:
biadia also have white birds as well, not a common knowen fact. auctioneer


I didn't know that! Are they the ISA Whites, or their own version of a white bird?


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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:01 am 
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Sultry Swan
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biadias whites are kept in south australia i have 100 of them and a friend has 5000 of them . he sells to the jewish market who only eat white shelled eggs.
no idea of what cross they are just white males over new hamp females as they are white with red necks.

also there is only 1 strain of commerical rhode island red left in australia and 1 strain of rhode island white and white rocks all kept by different hatchery.
the isa brown base breed the female line is rhodeisland red base and the male or silver libe is rhode island white base. note 2 companies own the world 4 major lkaying straind that is
'hi sex
hi line
lohmans
isa brown,

lohman comes from germany and have just re eatablished in australia when inghams let the hisex franschine go.
lohman also own the australian bantam layers.
all birds are simmiluar .
there are red and white verson of all layers.

auctioneer

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Breeder of pure bred poultry since 1977. seller of point of lay Isa brown pullets. *** Specialist poultry auctioneer.*** Have gavel will travel


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 Post subject: Re: ISA Brown Chickens
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:14 am 
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Proud Rooster
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The Australorps used to hold the laying rate/per year record. I don't think this was from Leghorn infusion (Minorca may have helped). That first article I gave gives a good rundown on the history of breeds utilized & crossed. But, it seems more recently developed terminal layer strains are a blend.

The Isa Browns/Lohmann Browns when introduced to Aust. did not lay more eggs/year than local layer strains. But they did lay larger egg mass, & brown eggs. On the downside, they had poorer Marek's Disease resistance, needed higher protein diets, & cannibalism was a problem.

Yes, there have been so many take-overs & mergers of poultry breeding companies, that you just need to check out a few companies to see the majority of all commercial layer & broiler strains that have been developed. Eg Hendrix Genetics alone own:
http://www.isapoultry.com/en/products/
-Isa,
-Babcock,
-Shaver,
-Hisex,
-Dekalb &
-Bovans.
* And some of these had bought out other breeding companies before being taken over themselves.

This article says H&N International were bought by Lohmann Tierzucht and Hy-Line International:
http://www.hn-int.com/index_1_10_6_gb.html

It looks like Hendrix-Genetics are branching into traditional (heritage) poultry breed genetics too:
http://www.hendrix-genetics.com/genetics/traditional-poultry-breeding/
So, even that niche market is being taken over. ;-)


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