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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Okay genetics gurus how did this happen? I know mutts are involved and anything can happen but how did one line end up with eggs light brown and the other green given they had the same original rooster? Can the Australorp or Barnevelder have been carrying the green egg-laying gene but not show it?

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And I am certain as to who lays the eggs as I have had the girls separated in an A frame at different times to confirm the egg colour

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I observe in fascination a worm move by peristaltic action through the freshly turned earth as I plant out my chilies. Grasping the Annelid I toss it to the waiting pack of beady-eyed vultures and watch the ensuing mayhem while laughing like a chook!


Last edited by Milo on Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:58 pm 
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Somebody is hiding an araucana background there Milo. Just not sure who though :dontknow
Good post by the way as the parentage is very well documented.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:16 pm 
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The blue shell gene is dominant so that means if the hen has the gene she will lay blue eggs (or green if there is a layer of brown on the outside).


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:00 am 
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andrewschooks wrote:
The blue shell gene is dominant so that means if the hen has the gene she will lay blue eggs


So my X-breed light Sussex did not inherit the blue shell gene from the 'red-white & blue' rooster? or is she 'split'(?) for the gene and hiding it?

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I observe in fascination a worm move by peristaltic action through the freshly turned earth as I plant out my chilies. Grasping the Annelid I toss it to the waiting pack of beady-eyed vultures and watch the ensuing mayhem while laughing like a chook!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:21 am 
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My guess is that it's come from your bottom male.

It's a long time since I looked at this but I think the blue shell gene is called O and as it's dominant. You can see it if a female has it even in one copy. That's why I think it can only have come through the male where it can be hidden. If I'm reading your diagram correctly, your top male hasn't passed it on to his female progeny, so it can only be the bottom male.

I'll go and look it up later and see if I'm talking nonsense.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:22 am 
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The original rooster must have carried one dose of the dominant blue eggshell gene (O). The sussex & barnevelder hens didn't have O else they would have layed blue/green eggs (excluding recessive brown eggshell inhibiting gene).

The sussex x original rooster bred white-ish pullet has inherited some factor/s for brown, likely from the original rooster, hence the intermediate or light brown eggs. The cockerel out of the original rooster x barnevelder has inherited the dominant blue eggshell gene (from original rooster) & passed it along with gene/s (more dominant gene/s for brown if from cockerel alone, or possibly recessive if Australorp carrier also) for brown egg shell onto the blue pullet (green egg layer).


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:38 am 
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Thanks rollyard. I didn't follow the diagram properly and missed that the fav looking fellow was the offspring of the top male.

If you want a bluer egg rather than green you could cross one of those males with a white egg layer to eliminate some of the brown tinge. Maybe an ancona or a leghorn would be interesting.

The other thing that's interesting here is that there is no peacomb. Peacomb and blue eggs usually go in pairs. Andrew has explained why that is so before but the technicalities escape me. I know that with persistence they can be split.

This is a good example of a case where egg-laying features that only express in the female can be carried and passed on by the male. The other obvious one is dark brown eggs as in the marans where you want to breed your females out of a male who is the son of the best egg-producing female.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:29 am 
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I missed that too, it took a few looks.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:09 pm 
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What's fascinating is that you've got a green egglayer who doesn't have any of the typical "tells" for it - no muff, beard, crest or - most importantly - no peacomb. The link between peacomb and green eggshell is amazingly strong, so the fact you've got a classic-looking blue Australorp-ish laying a green egg is - well, rather amazing.

Me, like the others - I'd be going for the second male as the one hiding the green eggshell. Best way to tell is, of course, hatch more of his offspring, both over the black Australorp and any other random girls and see what turns up. The green egg gene is also amazingly dominant and should turn up again quite readily.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:17 pm 
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By the way Milo are you sure that second rooster came from the australorp cross mum and not the sussex?
His hackle feathers look decidedly Co/Co.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:50 pm 
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Okay I updated the flow chart to make it clearer.

The first rooster is the very first rooster I had, linky-link he died of a respiratory infection. He was carrying blue, mahogany, silver and leg feathering (not that you can see the pin feathers in the photo)

and pattern gene and Columbian (?) would blue/splash have completely hidden Columbian?

I was fairly certain he was crossed to the Barnevelder to produce the second rooster (B) based on the colour of the egg that was hatched and what I thought was the chick down (Is he eWh/eB). I can't be absolutely certain but I thought the only chicken I had with eB was the Barnevelder

Here is a pic of chickens (A) and (B) at only a couple of days old.
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I posted about rooster (B) earlier Mystery box cockerel

ruff said he was
ruff wrote:
laced breast from his mother, blue from his dad, white legs more than not from father, mahogany from both parents, silver must come from father because mum is gold,


There was another boy from this clutch of eggs but he was hatched out in a frying pan and ended in a frying pan, circle of life!

The ‘blue Australorp’ girl (C) is from the pairing of Rooster (B) and the Australorp as the Australorp was the only chicken I had at the time with extended black and the ‘blue Australorp’ has black legs.

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So yeah I was surprised to get a green egg.

Just a question; not that I am planning to attempt this, but is it possible to breed back to a blue egg by crossing to say my brown leghorns. So loose the brown pigment but retain the blue?

I should learn to read :-)
Chicken07 wrote:
If you want a bluer egg rather than green you could cross one of those males with a white egg layer to eliminate some of the brown tinge. Maybe an ancona or a leghorn would be interesting.


but would they ever be blue rather than blue'ish

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Cheers, Milo.
I observe in fascination a worm move by peristaltic action through the freshly turned earth as I plant out my chilies. Grasping the Annelid I toss it to the waiting pack of beady-eyed vultures and watch the ensuing mayhem while laughing like a chook!


Last edited by Milo on Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:04 pm 
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The shell material itself is blue. If the egg looks green then it's because there is a layer of brown on top of the blue. So yes if you put the blue gene into an absolutely white egged genetic background then you'll get the most blue egg possible.

Brown Leghorns are indeed layers of very white eggs so would be a good choice. In fact it's already been done to produce the Cream Legbar.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:05 pm 
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I'd put the green egglayer back to a Leghorn rooster that hatched from the whitest possible egg you can find - generally this is a white Leghorn but if the lovely Browns do paper-white eggs too, that would be even better (more colours to play with!) - then hatch a cockerel from the bluest egg you've got and put him over mum. Blue eggshell is a tricky thing to "fix" as obviously you only know you've got it when someone lays it, so it's carried with the girls, but apparently the cockerel is significant in fixing the quality of the colour. So you want to get blue on both sides of the family, and then only hatch the blue eggs.

Obviously this comes with inbreeding risks if you're just starting out with a single blue egglayer, so you'd need to practice careful line-breeding, or risk bringing in another unrelated Leghorn and then re-start the process.

Ordinarily you'd bring in an unrelated Araucana on either side of the mix, but you'd bring in the crest/muffs/beard immediately. The interesting thing about what you've got is there is absolutely no external indicator of the eggcolour, which is quite unusual and would be rather fun to play with.

I (accidentally!) broke the link all the way to peacomb, but only the peacomb'd girls are laying green eggs. Straight comb, non-green egg, still. A few more random generations and I'll probably get a result like yours (except black - like you, mine are Australorp-based and they breed surprisingly true when put back to pure Australorp rooster!), but yours has Australorp type. Mine are sort of long and lanky.

Although I have a blue girl of whom I have great hopes ...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:13 am 
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infoaddict wrote:
I'd put the green egglayer back to a Leghorn rooster that hatched from the whitest possible egg you can find - generally this is a white Leghorn but if the lovely Browns do paper-white eggs too, that would be even better (more colours to play with!) - then hatch a cockerel from the bluest egg you've got and put him over mum. Blue eggshell is a tricky thing to "fix" as obviously you only know you've got it when someone lays it, so it's carried with the girls, but apparently the cockerel is significant in fixing the quality of the colour. So you want to get blue on both sides of the family, and then only hatch the blue eggs.

Obviously this comes with inbreeding risks if you're just starting out with a single blue egglayer, so you'd need to practice careful line-breeding, or risk bringing in another unrelated Leghorn and then re-start the process.


"hatch a cockerel from the bluest egg you've got" bluest egg from the blue Australorp or from one of her offspring that lays a really blue egg?

first cross = blue Australorp * brown leghorn cockerel
second cross = F1 Pullet (blue egger) * brown leghorn again (I have a second brown leghorn cockerel)?
third cross = F2 Cockerel (blue egger?) * first blue Australorp

then where to?

What about putting Rooster (B) over brown leghorns as well and using their offspring? or should I use (B) rather than the second brown leghorn for the second cross?

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Cheers, Milo.
I observe in fascination a worm move by peristaltic action through the freshly turned earth as I plant out my chilies. Grasping the Annelid I toss it to the waiting pack of beady-eyed vultures and watch the ensuing mayhem while laughing like a chook!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:43 am 
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Wise Wyandotte
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Assuming your pedigree is correct, we already know that Rooster B has the genotype Oo (ie he has one copy of the blue gene O and one for white o). So half his progeny will inherit O from him.

If it were me, I'd just use Rooster B over Brown Leghorn hens (or any super-white egg layers), then breed from the female progeny that lay the bluest eggs. Introducing more Australorp into the program just brings more brown pigment in. The brown pigment can be extraordinarily difficult to breed out.


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