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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:40 am 
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While I've only raised chickens for a few years now, I instantly found them an incredible hobby full of ups and downs, just the right amount of investment, and plenty of smiles and laughter. So, when I accidentally created a cross-breed that was unique looking and a good layer, I decided "maybe I should continue making it, just for fun". And that is how the Dalmatian Bantam came to be.
Currently a mix between Sebrights, OEGBs and Silkies, the Dal Bantam has the "paint" genetics, causing it to be white with black spots. The skin is suppose to be a dark grey, the feet lightly feathered, the feathers themselves non-silkied but not tight to the skin, and the comb rose or walnut. Right now there is a lot of variety, as I am only about six generations in, but I'm learning so much about genetics and having something to select for is a lot of fun. First and for most I want healthy, happy birds, but I also am selecting towards a bantam that is a good mother, good layer, good forager, hardy in all weather, and good at escaping predators (can fly, unlike a silkie) but is also tame enough to enjoy being around people and allow its self to be handled at least some of the time.

My original two females are still with me, Goldie and Susie. Their only difference is eye color (Susie has dark eyes, Goldie has golden ones). They produced Dastan, Dodie, Dove and Ruby. And after that it starts to get a little bit complicated. I have a black silkied rooster named Rain who hatched on Christmas from Ruby and a blue silkie rooster and I just bought some Rosecomb, Cochin and OEGB bantams as well as hatched some interesting bantam mixes. Right now I have 35 bantam chicks, about half of which are showing paint coloration. Some have silkied feathers, others don't; some of light skin, some have dark; some are pure-breeds from hatcheries, others are mixes.

I was wondering if there was anyone else out there working on creating their own breed, even if its just a fun hobby? : )


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:34 am 
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Could we see some images please?! :bg

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:49 pm 
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This first one is Susie (Black-eyed Susan) one of the first two Dalmatian Bantams.
[url][URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/gitabooks/media/P1180431_zpsijwymqzl.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]

This is Dodie, a second generation Dalmatian pullet (in the photo) who now has chicks of her own.
[url][URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/gitabooks/media/P1180772_zpsten9mupr.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]

This is Goldie, Susie's sister, getting a drink. I love the contrast against the bright green grass.
[url][URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/gitabooks/media/P1170161_zpsqvwntcru.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]

This is Eve with some of her 11 dalmatian bantam chicks. Some have black spots, others don't. I've got plenty to choose from though. : )
[url][URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/gitabooks/media/P1240206_zpskakrhlqk.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]

Dastan, thinking he is really something special. He is the father of most of my current chicks (so I believe).
[url][URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/gitabooks/media/P1210644_zpsmoakh1vg.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]

Dove, bathing in the sunlight and dust, showing off her beauty. She doesn't have a crest or spots, but since she is only second generation (and beautiful) I kept her anyways.
[url][URL=http://s410.photobucket.com/user/gitabooks/media/P1200647_zps1n5uwtrb.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]


Hopefully the photos will show up. : )


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:29 pm 
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They appear to be dominant white and the ones with some black feathers is when they have a single dose and they get some leakage, the pure white ones have a double dose of dominant white. There appears to be some ameraucana in them, silkie and oeg.. i have a single dose dominant white chick growing now from bantam black laced red wyandotte cockerel over a dominant white pullet thats parents were blue laced red wyandotte over new Hampshire cross white leghorn.. much like your chicks white with a few black feathers on its back.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:28 am 
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GitaBooks wrote:
I was wondering if there was anyone else out there working on creating their own breed .. fun hobby?

Not really, but the result makes it look that way. Some unintentional hatching, and some "shouldn't have done that" incubation, and a couple of hide-away hens that came home leading a few chicks each.

The 2nd gen results are quite small bantams, all with four in their mix: Belgian d'Uccle, Pekin, Bantam Wyandotte and very small (?bantam) Araucana. They are pretty, and I could fix the characteristics I guess to keep the small size, general cuteness, feathered feet etc and maybe variously coloured eggs. But I decided to move them along and concentrate on pure-breds. Just ten p.o.l. pullets left, and I will not repeat not put a rooster in their pen.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:19 pm 
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Would I sound harsh if I suggested that a silver spangled hamburg would be closer to my initial toughs on a dalmatian chicken?

don't you only Have a breed once they breed true.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:35 am 
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No, you don't sound harsh. : )

However, I don't quite understand what you mean. They aren't a breed, yet, I know that for sure, they need to breed true consistently before you can consider them a Pure-breed animal. However, all breeds have to start somewhere. : )

Another thing about breeds is that they are suppose to be unique in more then just their appearance, which is why I'm selecting for a hardy, middle-sized bantam that can lay better the most bantams and cover more chicks while broody but still not eat as much as a standard sized chicken for the amount of food they eat.

The name came off of Dalmatian Dogs (not the place Dalmatia, there is already a Dalmatian standard chicken from this area). Dalmatians are white with random black spots through-out their coat of varying sizes.

Goldie is the best specimen I have so far, I like the size and amount of black spots on her. However, right now I just want to avoid inbreeding so I'm introducing new genetics in before I begin the actual strict selection. I am, however, planning on getting rid of most of my all white birds (even if they have the genetics for dalmatians, which I know because Dastan and Dove have produced spotted chicks). I've found Dastan a new home he will be going too soon and my Silver Sebright, Spock, will be taking over as top bantam Rooster along with my black silkie mix rooster, Rain.

Eventually I want to add some Paint Silkie genes to the flock to enhance the spotting size and amount, but I have to find a breeder in the area first.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:23 am 
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I think everyone new you were refering to Dalmatian dogs. When you look at your photo of eve with the chicks they are the classic dominate white down colour, and the black feathers is purely leakage, if you breed them together you will always get more pure white chicks as they get the the two factors of dominate white. And as pentaque stated a silver spangled hamburgh would better represent a Dalmatian when my chick gets a few more days older i will take a photo to show you its the same, white with a few black feathers and the creamy colour to the head is a sign also.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:42 am 
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petanque wrote:
.... don't you only Have a breed once they breed true.

Yes, and then only if it's proved and accepted by the ruling authority - cloud cuckoo land for most people, not even an aspiration. At best I think the 'average' backyarder could only create a mongrelised group of cross-breds which might occasionally throw up some of a similar type. Or not. Also at best, as GitaB said in the first post "a fun hobby".

A parallel in the dog world is the so-called "Labradoodle" from guide dog origins which has been going for many years: but still doesn't breed true, still not accepted as a "breed" - just a very useful and recognisable crossbred type.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:58 am 
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I also have recessive white genetics in there because one of the original birds was a Red Pyle. Dodie's sister is a Red Pyle because of this. My White Silkie rooster apparently was a Dominant white though, because he was the one to produce spotted chicks.
What happened was my Red Pyle bred with my Sebright rooster and they had white hens with flecks of black. They then bred with a white rooster and had Susie and Goldie. After that I had too many bantam roosters of various mixes to know who the father was, but I guess I'm saying that its hard for me to know what genes are being expressed because technically White silkies are suppose to be recessive as well.
So why were the Pyle x sebright offspring spotted if they were recessive white? Is Lacing a form of dominant white?
Also, if I add paint silkies into the genetics, will it help stabilize the spotting? From what I hear people don't know the exact genetics behind Paint Silkies. I've asked some questions to some other people and never got any answers, so I'm so glad you guys are helping me out. : )

First off I'll explain that my mix between Red Pyle and sebright I called the Banshee sisters because they were so aggressive and feisty. One of them even crowd.
So when my Banshees bred with my White Silkie rooster, why was it that both male chicks produced had red leakage and both females had black leakage? Why did the males both of pink skin and the females both have grey?

Could my White Silkie rooster have been Dominant white because it was a Naked-neck variety with pink skin? Could it have been a cross-breed? It was produced by a good local breeder with show quality individuals.

They said that paints tend to have black at the end of the hackles in a half-moon. My Dalmatians have this, so that means they have paint genetics, right? So the black came from the sebright, right? Now I'm testing some other breeds in the mix. You suggested spangled, would a spangled OEGB be good to cross into it? What about black?

Dove, the all white hen, has one feather that is lavender colored, meaning she has a tiny bit of leakage. But she would be Dominant White, correct? And Dastan, who is all white, has black spots on the skin of his legs.

Also, I was wondering, my original silkie rooster was a Naked Neck and none of my chicks have ever had naked necks. I thought it was dominant? So why would that never show up in any of the mixes and yet silkie feathers and Red Pyle show up?

The Red pyle dalmatian mix bred with a blue silkie and produced a rooster that was blue with lemon patterning on the back and some lacing on his chest and body. So why would the lacing show up after so many generations? Is it linked with the color blue?

If I got a Paint Silkie rooster and crossed it with my paint hens, would they be white or paint? Why can two paint silkies produce paint chicks if they are both dominant white?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just confused by all the chicken genetics stuff. : )

Thanks for any answers.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:56 am 
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Hmmmm, with so many mixes it's confusing and I'm not experienced enough in genetics to explain them all. But if a silkie roo with correct mulberry comb breeds with a hen with red comb the girls will get the mulberry comb and the boys the red comb - sex linked as has been expressed. I have no knowledge of paint silkies :dontknow . I would say the pattern gene is in there , it maybe possible to have dominant white and recessive white combos. With no knowledge of what they are masking,red and black leakage is more common with dominate white.. red will generaly be in the hackle area and black as random feathers on the body, the problem with throwing so many breeds and colours together it's a lucky dip as with no planning or set path to a achievable outcome they will never breed true. Eg if you want splash silkies and have a black cockerel and a blue pullet breeding together will give 50/ 50 black and blue chicks and then when you put two blues together from this you will get , 25% black,25% blue and 50% splash ie two doses of blue. So you know how to plan it and what to expect as percentages over 100 offspring.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:05 pm 
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There is a fair bit going on here and i wont be able to touch on everything but i'll see if i can provide some direction without creating more confusion.

Firstly you need to understand the genetic base will have an influence on you final colour.....more influence than any single gene in most cases so you need to learn about the different e alleles and how to identify them in order to start refining to a chosen base if you want them to eventually breed true. It's the only way you will get consistent results. Eye colour is heavily affected by the base gene also. Darker bases (Er and E) produce darker eyes as does the presence of fm gene (the one that causes black skin).

Naked neck is dominant so i would suggest your naked neck didn't produce anything for you. Silkie feathering is recessive so it may have been a throwback from a previous mating.

My understanding of paint is that is a newly identified form of the recessive white gene. It's just a leaky form of recessive white. The key is it is recessive. Crossing a paint to a non paint bird (black for example) will not produce paint offspring. Breeding the offspring together will recombine two doses of the paint gene in some of the offspring to produce some paints. I agree that a lot of these look like dominant white in one or two doses. Here's a link to some info on paint for you. http://www.chickencolours.com/Translati ... ticleX.pdf Also, paint can produce holes in the pigment of the eyes......as another identifying characteristic.

I have been working on a new variety that we wish to have standardized at some stage so have started to learn a bit about the process. A requirement for an application is that proof be provided that they breed true. The definition provided is 5 generations with consistent results. You need to write up a standard that complies with the current Australian standard format including a points scale for judging to submit. Submissions can only be put in when new standard or amendments are being made which doesn't come around very often. The next lot of submissions wont be for a few years. There is also a requirement that the name for the proposed variety have precedence. Boutique names like snow leopard chicken or caramel cream etc. are nothing more than a sales pitch in my view. They will never fly with the standards board..... Having said that, there are no laws against mucking around in your backyard and creating something for fun. I should also note that this is the process in Australia. The variety i'm working on has been in the works here for 8 years at this stage with a clear goal from the outset. The same variety is still in proposal stages in the US and has been worked on there for approximately 12 years from memory. It's a very long and detailed process as it should be.

Chickens are bred to a standard as opposed to dogs being bred to a pedigree. They only need to display the desired characteristics of the standard to be considered pure bred. That makes it sound easy but as outlined in the paragraph above, it's not a simple process to put the standard in place.

My final and most important point.......have fun. Remember what set you on this path and hold on to it. It's all about what lights your fire and if that is being creative in your back yard then don't let anybody dampen your spirits. Hope i've helped in some way.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:45 am 
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Thank you so much for the advice and encouragement. It is a lot of fun breeding them, and even the mixes that I didn't select for can be so beautiful.

That is interesting what you say about Paint being recessive. It would make sense, but it would mean that everything I've been told about them was wrong. Whenever I've asked about it I've been told that it was a variety of Dominant White and that breeding them to black silkies would make the color stronger. I'll have to look into that more.

Best of luck on your own breeding in the works! : )


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:59 pm 
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That's just a typo Gitabooks. I'm sure he meant Paint is an allele of Dominant White which is leaky in one dose.
If you read the thread Dottes put up, you will see an excellent description of Paints written by Sigrid van Dort.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:30 am 
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Bronze wrote:
That's just a typo Gitabooks. I'm sure he meant Paint is an allele of Dominant White which is leaky in one dose.
If you read the thread Dottes put up, you will see an excellent description of Paints written by Sigrid van Dort.



Okay, thanks for correcting that. : )


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