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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:48 am 
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Hatchling
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I'm hoping for some sage advice. I am running three pens in the spiral breeding program and the time has come to replace a rooster with one of his sons, but sadly none of them are quite as good as him. I know he should go but I feel like this is a backward step. There's not a wide gene pool available locally to bring in a replacement, so that's a remote possibility at this stage. What do you do in this situation?
Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:17 pm 
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Assist Admin
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Use the rooster again with the next pen of females.

No point using a son if they are no good.

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Erika


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:02 am 
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Wise Wyandotte
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What don't you like about his sons? Maybe this rooster is a good looker but not throwing good progeny? Yes


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:49 am 
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Old Mother Goose
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What are you breeding?


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:49 pm 
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Hatchling
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I guess I should have said - they are blue laced wyandottes - not terribly red yet ! The older rooster is the first I've bred without brassy good hackles and sickles, and Having finally got one, I really hoped I could build on that. I am slowly getting hens with deeper ground colour, and some nice roosters, but those hackles are hard to overlook.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Wise Wyandotte
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Yes it's difficult to get good BLR Wyandottes, but not impossible!


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Location: Thirlmere nsw
I don't have problem with brassiness and am starting to get good ground colour, but getting good breast lacing has been my challenge. This is in blr bantam wyandottes.
Have blr cockerel and 2 black laced pullets growing on the right eb base and hopefully will get decent lacing.
Have another unrelated pullet dark blue laced red with real deep ground colour and great lacing also on eb base, plus a hen eb blr . So can put a good pen together this season.
The original black laced red roo eb based will leave with hen and pullets eb/ewh plus a splash laced pullet.

In large only have a good hopefully blr cockerel growing and a blr pullet eb/ewh based, with ground colour not deep enough, and another cockerel on ewh base that will be culled.

Are yours bantam or standards, what base are yours on.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Hatchling
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Mine are standards, eb I suspect but I'm not really sure - not a genetics expert sadly - still learning!


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Location: Thirlmere nsw
Easiest way to tell base is from chick down colour, eb blr chicks are dark brown black colour with blue bellie, black laced red are similar in eb but bellie is more black.
Eb split ewh are a wild type looking chick with racing stripes, the lower colours are light brown in colour, pure ewh chicks are like yellow buff colour all over.
The split chicks when they first get their wing feathers will carry the wheaton pattern.
I find with mine the splits are carrying the best ground colour but are lacking in decent breast lacing.
A eb over eb/ewh will give 50/50% in both bases. Avoid straight ewh as will set you back to far.,
Eb is the base to aim for. I have found laced chicks when have big base windows when young , ie laced like a adult with thin edge when grown will have very thin lacing and sometimes will lose some lacing whilst the chicks whom have small ground colour / window like a slit when grown the lacing develops well. My experience so far anyway.
If you have the brassy gold in hackles and saddles there must be gold laced in there makeup.. if you look in some of my previous posts there is some photos of mine. :read :thumbs: . Also some others here have great posts on blr.


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:50 am 
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Champion Bird
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redjohanna wrote:
Use the rooster again with the next pen of females.

No point using a son if they are no good.


For a spiral breeding plan you would normally use a son in the next pen over. If none of the sons from the previous pen are any good then use the same rooster again. You could try using him in the same pen over the best of the females from that pen or you could try him in the next pen over with the best of the females from that family. At the end of the day, just shuffle things the best you can to avoid brother/sister pairings. If that means using 3 groups of 2016 hatched pullets with 3 2015 hatched roosters then so be it. If you have some 2015 hatched hens that have qualities that will help balance issues you have with your 2016 hatched cockerel/s then you could pen them up and see how you go.

Ultimately for spiral breeding you would keep the females in the same pen/family for life and use a cockerel in the next pen over each year. When there are so many aspects to keep in balance for development it doesn't always work out well for you so you need to just maintain some diversity by avoiding close inbreeding while balancing things out as best you can until you start to get a bit more consistency.

Furthermore, brother sister pairings can be done but care needs to be taken to avoid doing it in consecutive seasons and also you need to be on the lookout for any major faults and make no excuses when it comes to culling. But if your birds with the best overall balance are siblings then you could potentially hatch a bunch from those to capitalize on those good qualities and use the offspring the following season to help balance some of the unrelated birds from other pens. So many ways you can go about it. Most important is balancing faults so as to keep moving forward with development but without too much inbreeding. It's a challenging variety.

Feel free to send me a message through here anytime. I check in most days. I have a few friends around the country working on this variety so may also be able to put you in touch with someone if you feel you need to bring in new stock. Good ones are still few and far between though so transport costs are highly probable depending on your location. Best of luck.

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There's silk in my name but dottes are my game. Amateur breeder of standard blue laced red wyandottes.

Shane.


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Showy Hen
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I have 2 cages this year I am selling eggs from, if some other breeders need new blood. Best quality I have seen. Would be interested in feedback from others in the BLR breeding game/challenge !!

Sorry - photos are not real close up...


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 11:17 am 
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Hatchling
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Thanks to all for the helpful comments, photos and advice, and even for just replying - much appreciated. I'll tell the old boy to get it right next year!


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Fiesty Fowl
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Location: Thirlmere nsw
If your roo has good red in hackles and saddle maybe the brassy colour is coming from some of the hens, if you have enough hens cull out of breeding pen any that have brassy hackles.


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