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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:49 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:04 pm
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Location: NSW Southern Highlands
hi all,
I thought I would expand on Jose's questions using another thread.

As indicated, I started with a nice looking but "not quite to type" Coronation Sussex rooster, (5 years ago), who ended up being rather large, over 5 kg, in his hey day. I personally think he has a nice shape, but legs are pale yellow and have some remnant feathering.

He has been the "main" rooster used for first 2 to 3 generations of progeny in this flock, which also has Australorp girls. The reason it worked this way is because there was initially no plan to breed them in any sort of controlled way, so the main area did not have the possibility to separate breeding groups.

in any case, I am not a serious breeder, and apart from enjoying my chooks, am not "doing" anything except a few experiments and making observations at the present time. I would eventually like to take more serious/directed actions, but my present life situation is 'lucky" to allow me to do even what little is happening now. So, this thread is mostly just SHARING.

in any case, all the original girls are a bit light for their breeds and so are the first generation of offspring.
Second generation crosses are on average 0.5 kg heavier than their pure "coronation" counterparts - both sexes and all resulting colours.
some of the crosses have very bright yellow legs. these are bigger again.

at the moment, I can say this, because the number of chickens are relatively few and I "know" them..... However, to go further on these observations in further generations and other lines without a controlled breeding program, including a detailed plan/procedure for activities and taking NOTES will be much harder to reach any conclusions.

Jose mentioned the girls tend to pass on their size. At the moment, I don't know which of the girls laid the eggs. However, one of the Australorps is about 700 g lighter than the other..... maybe there is something in that... My second gen black girls are all well over 3 kg, while the coronation-types range from 2.2-3.1 kg, average 2.5 (yes, smaller!!!)

the biggest boys I have bred in this actually look like light sussex pattern, not coronations. My full lavenders are bigger than "pure" coronations, but not as big as the light pattern. all the second gen boys range from 4.5 to 5.5 kg. I have not managed to get a coronation looking boy to be as big as the original and most are just under 4 kg. still decent, but small for the breed.

will post some pics.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:56 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:04 pm
Posts: 319
Location: NSW Southern Highlands
some text got cut out of previous post.
just mentioning that it seems important to have a proper PLAN for a breeding program and good system for taking NOTES. possibly a knowledge of statistics will also help greatly.


Attachments:
File comment: light cockerel, 5 kg
light boy.PNG
light boy.PNG [ 602.07 KiB | Viewed 6858 times ]
File comment: the original rooster
dudley01.png
dudley01.png [ 392.2 KiB | Viewed 6858 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:03 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:04 pm
Posts: 319
Location: NSW Southern Highlands
here's some pics


Attachments:
File comment: birchen roo.
Screenshot_20200413-124147.png
Screenshot_20200413-124147.png [ 1.43 MiB | Viewed 6858 times ]
File comment: Marans in background for size comparison
Screenshot_20200413-124521.png
Screenshot_20200413-124521.png [ 1.4 MiB | Viewed 6858 times ]
File comment: second gen pullet
Screenshot_20200413-124448.png
Screenshot_20200413-124448.png [ 1.52 MiB | Viewed 6858 times ]
File comment: pair of coro pullets
Screenshot_20200413-124041.png
Screenshot_20200413-124041.png [ 1.46 MiB | Viewed 6858 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:39 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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they are big heavy and good looking chooks .love they big body type .
any person can breed they flock of chooks to make them better . no need for complex genetic and breeding program .
if a person is breeding a pure stock of any breed ,than the story is different .need to follow the SOP and need a serious amount of paper work and much attention to the breeding detail .

Hybrid vigor is a great factor in increasing the body size for the first generation or 2 .


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:42 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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5 Kg cockerel at 5 months is not small at all . who big you want them to be ?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:58 am 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

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Location: NSW Southern Highlands
Not unhappy with the size at all Jose. :)
Just curious.
And the coronation patterned birds are generally smaller in my group. But, even the smaller girls lay eggs - and the smaller ones eat less.......
There's still much i can do at this stage before needing lots of notes and records or needing to hatch lots of birds. (I DO keep records but don't have a detailed plan. Huge difference when there is a plan!)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:56 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Okaru wrote:
Not unhappy with the size at all Jose. :)
Just curious.
And the coronation patterned birds are generally smaller in my group. But, even the smaller girls lay eggs - and the smaller ones eat less.......
There's still much i can do at this stage before needing lots of notes and records or needing to hatch lots of birds. (I DO keep records but don't have a detailed plan. Huge difference when there is a plan!)


without plans you can t go any where ,just work and more work . mix result .
you have nice birds.
are you breeding for eggs or meat or both ?
breeding your own flocks of chooks is exciting , you don t need to go all over the board . you can keep it simple and efficient ,

I like the coronation patterned birds even if they are smaller .like you said they eat less ............etc


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:59 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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124041 pullets/hens are stunning .are they pure or the crosses progeny . they look big to me


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:46 am 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

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Location: NSW Southern Highlands
Mostly for eggs. We do get some meat, but this is not the main attraction.
The two girls in the pic have different leg colours, but of course all the progeny carry yellow leg genes. The younger one is one of the bigger girls. Waiting for her first egg.. Her father is quarter australorp. Not sure which mother....... (We are back to plan and records.... ! :) )


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:29 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Okaru wrote:
Mostly for eggs. We do get some meat, but this is not the main attraction.
The two girls in the pic have different leg colours, but of course all the progeny carry yellow leg genes. The younger one is one of the bigger girls. Waiting for her first egg.. Her father is quarter australorp. Not sure which mother....... (We are back to plan and records.... ! :) )


how many eggs you get out your girls in one season? they are better layer then they parent or less?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:47 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

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Location: NSW Southern Highlands
Sorry for delayed reply. I cannot answer that properly as i dont separate them when we just collect eggs for the kitchen. First season, no crosses, we had average 5.5 eggs per bird per week.Second season and third including the crosses the average did not decrease. This tells me the crosses and pure progeny were laying better than the parents. The previous season and last year the average is a little lower. The tally includes eggs from my girls who are now 4 and 5 years old and who i suspect maybe only lay 1 egg per week during a few months of the year.
But i can tell you that going into lay the black crosses are usually one to two weeks sooner, around 24 weeks and the moult times for the secobd and third year black crosses apoear to be shorter. (Later start...... But the first girls resuming laying include coronations)
Biggest difference is broodiness. Coronations are rather (very!) broody. I have some that would go 4 or 5 times in a season. Black crosses only 2 girls went broody last season and each only once. Other 9/10 did not.


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