Backyard Poultry Forum • View topic - Incongruities of Judging

Backyard Poultry Forum

Chickens, waterfowl & all poultry - home of exhibition & backyard poultry in Australia & New Zealand
Login with a social network:
It is currently Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:23 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Incongruities of Judging
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:51 am 
Offline
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 8:44 am
Posts: 31516
Location: Morayfield, SEQ
Has anybody else yet read the article by Mike Ashton titled, 'Incongruities of Judging' in the Australasian Poultry Volume 24 no. 4? (Oct/Nov 2013).

He points out a few limitations of the current system in the UK and makes a few suggestions. It's an interesting read for a judge I would think.

_________________
image
Backyard Poultry Forum


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:05 am 
Offline
Fiesty Fowl
Fiesty Fowl
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:39 am
Posts: 1072
Location: Canna Western Australia
Have you got your copy already ?
I have to wait another week before mine turns up out here in the back blocks of WA.
I will read it with interest when it does get here. ;-)

_________________
Starting out to breed Australorps & Marans and a couple more


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:44 pm 
Offline
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 8:44 am
Posts: 31516
Location: Morayfield, SEQ
Mine came in the mail yesterday.

Basically he says that when it comes to a simple description, 'exhibitions are there to show what the birds are "supposed to " look like'. He questions whether our judging practices do achieve that and whether the public or inexperienced breeders would really know what the different varieties of fowl should look like from a show. He just poses the question.

He goes through the UK practice of judging with the standards in mind and quotes Lewis Wright who says, 'When three or four good judges of any particular variety of fowls assemble before a few good specimens, it will generally be found that they agree in their conclusions as to which are first, second and third best.' There's some discussion about not using points slavishly in the judging process and how a good job is done. He quotes Wright again when he asserts that the, 'proper use of a standard is not to give the birds a score, but to place them in correct order of merit.' A holistic appraisal takes place much more quickly than tedious totting up of individual points. That makes good sense to me because as a marker of NAPLAN assessments I can glance at a paper and predict the mark well before going through the points allocation and I think that type of holistic assessment is obviously applicable to fowls on the show bench. Mike Ashton appears to be suggesting that an overall impression or a holistic approach is worth further thought in terms of judging although a good eye for detail is also part of that. He outlines the Continental use of points which are allocated holistically.

He gives an example of the German shows where the fowls are given points that are visible to people at the show and give an indication of how good a particular bird is deemed to be. He roughly translates and I'm going to leave the German out:

97 Pkt: superb
96 Pkt: excellent
95-93 Pkt: good
90 Pkt: satisfactory
0 Pkt: disqualified

(p. 27 Australasian Poultry volume 24 no. 4 Oct/Nov 2013)

It makes sense for the visitors to the show to be given a general idea of how good the judge regarded that bird to be.

He wasn't suggesting the UK system be overhauled but he thought the Continental points system would be interesting to try out.

In a very, very small way, the BYP Online Show traffic light system gives a little of this sense,too, as it's motivated by a goal of giving the viewers an idea of how the fowl compares to the standard based on what is seen.

Anyway, the article is a couple of pages and worth reading. I'd recommend people go and buy the magazine. You can subscribe by contacting the publishers on grp@eck.net.au or (03) 5792 4222. One year is six issues and costs just $33.00 if you are in Australia.

_________________
image
Backyard Poultry Forum


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:00 pm 
Offline
Great Game
Great Game

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:57 am
Posts: 1267
Location: Hamilton Vic
It is an interesting article that really says that not all prizes are equal and that with the decline in competition in some breeds that is quite simple to get a lot of first prizes. I think that most people know that 3rd prize at the "National" show is often a better indictor of quality than best in show at the "Back of Nowhere" Agricultural show (but not always). Maybe a good compromise is a clear instruction that no bird which is not graded above a certain level will be awarded a prize. this will lead to some more disqualifications but still allow the best on the day to get a first prize.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:30 pm 
Offline
Gallant Game
Gallant Game

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:28 am
Posts: 554
A "holistic appraisal"

This term or approach has been used by some posters on our BYP site for sometime now; appearing to be a reoccurring thread in may posts!

Some on our site just refuse to accept this term or approach!

Is it change they're fearful of or they're worried they may loose their ability to change the standard?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:41 pm 
Offline
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 8:44 am
Posts: 31516
Location: Morayfield, SEQ
I think a holistic approach just describes the way you approach the fowl as a whole. An experienced judge is going to be able to very quickly weigh up many elements as he judges the fowl without reference to points because he knows what's required so well. The points are there for a purpose but slavish attention to them in small points without reference to the overall impression of the fowl would be a case of the tail wagging the dog.

_________________
image
Backyard Poultry Forum


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:11 am 
Offline
Prime Pekin
Prime Pekin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:48 am
Posts: 3292
Summing up, our judging (& the British) system ranks birds against each other using the
Standard as a guide, but does not indicate how close to the Standard the birds actually are.
The Continental system judges each individual bird against the Standard but does not have
an order of merit (no 1st,2nd or 3rd).
So it's a bit like judging chalk & cheese.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:11 am 
Offline
Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:27 pm
Posts: 339
Yes, but with a standard to guide you, you should be able to judge chalk & cheese.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:47 am 
Offline
Gallant Game
Gallant Game

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:28 am
Posts: 554
blucalypt All will not; but I totally agree with you in regard to the above!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
©2004-2014 Backyardpoultry.com. Content rights reserved
freestone