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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:29 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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This article in the current Australasian Poultry Mag makes for an interesting read.

It's all about the use of silkie blood in some crow-wing varieties of exhibition OEG to achieve the 'dark' face required by the standard. These early crosses were then widely distributed around the country where they were bred into other show strains (large and bantam) to achieve the same effect.

It is quiet an admission by the author but it's not clear whether he's claiming credit for the practice or if he's now regretting his role in it.

Any thoughts from others who have read it? Is this clever breeding? Does this sort of practice damage breeds? What is it about standards and the competitive side of exhibitions that makes people do this?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:24 pm 
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Well, knock me over with a wet tram ticket. I've just seen the list of appointed judges for the National and who's casting their eye over the so called 'American Game' class. How long will it be until an inky black face is the edict of the day here?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:53 am 
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I had someone try to tell me it was also in my large Oxfords....id have to disagree with the use of silkie blood in large strains of oxford game fowl. No cocker of the day would have put silkie blood in his birds.
Some old strains of oxford showed the dark face from use of Sumatra blood etc. I was told the silkie blood was added to some show strains of bantam oeg here in Australia, and you can certainly see it in some birds with the inky black face and some times even the pearly blue/white ear lobes.......the hens showing the pearly blue/white ear lobes get left in the pen at home while the male gets as much of that white cut out as possible before showing...........lol
i certainly don't understand peoples interpretation of the standard here.... Mulberry face IS NOT inky black, its deep red.......
I was told that is the only way Australians got their dark face fowl because the birds that were imported here didn't come dark.
Im sure we all know plenty of illegal birds came here also and i would say any one in the sport here back in the day were not going to add silkie blood.
You can see plenty of birds in America, Phillipines etc and ill guarantee they didn't add none game blood.

It is amazing what some people will do to an animal just to win a prize.....lol.... next year they add something else because the fad has changed and so on and so on....


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:38 am 
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Quote:

I had someone try to tell me it was also in my large Oxfords....id have to disagree with the use of silkie blood in large strains of oxford game fowl. No cocker of the day would have put silkie blood in his birds.
Some old strains of oxford showed the dark face from use of Sumatra blood etc. I was told the silkie blood was added to some show strains of bantam oeg here in Australia, and you can certainly see it in some birds with the inky black face and some times even the pearly blue/white ear lobes.......the hens showing the pearly blue/white ear lobes get left in the pen at home while the male gets as much of that white cut out as possible before showing...........lol
i certainly don't understand peoples interpretation of the standard here.... Mulberry face IS NOT inky black, its deep red.......
I was told that is the only way Australians got their dark face fowl because the birds that were imported here didn't come dark.
Im sure we all know plenty of illegal birds came here also and i would say any one in the sport here back in the day were not going to add silkie blood.
You can see plenty of birds in America, Phillipines etc and ill guarantee they didn't add none game blood.

It is amazing what some people will do to an animal just to win a prize.....lol.... next year they add something else because the fad has changed and so on and so on....


Its a known fact in Australia bankiva gamefowl were used in some line's of OEG and Pits.. In the day bankiva gamefowl came in Mulberry face and black face, single comb and pea comb. I even herd from old cockers that some even had white lobs.. And as I been told bankiva gamefowl were in Australia in the 1800's..

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:06 am 
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When a say bankiva gamefowl , I'm not talking about red jungle fowl. 'The cock fighting bankiva gamefowl is a old English breed, even King Henry 8th talk's of having them..

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:35 am 
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Here is some of the game fowl history..

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=y1 ... va&f=false

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:00 pm 
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My two cent is black skin, Mulberry face and black face, single comb and pea comb were in the UK, Belgium, Spain and France long before these countrys know were China was on the map, long before they had a trade root with China.. So to say black skin come's from silkie blood is retarded !!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:47 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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I'm not talking about ancient history New England, just the article and what the author said he did.

Have you read it or are you off on a tangent?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:00 pm 
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Quote:
I'm not talking about ancient history New England, just the article and what the author said he did.

Have you read it or are you off on a tangent?


No have not read it, I use to buy Australasian Poultry mag 5 years ago, but then you started to get newbi's to exhibition poultry getting on there soap box and giving bad info (that can kill birds).. It sounds like Australasian Poultry mag has not changed... It was a good mag but they went down a bad path..

All so it a old story that's been going around the poultry sheds for years, so yeah know the story.. If a breeder said he put silki in his game fowl. I wouldn't buy any birds off that breeder, even if he was selling softfeather breeds..

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:37 pm 
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New England Poultry wrote:
Quote:
If a breeder said he put silki in his game fowl. I wouldn't buy any birds off that breeder, even if he was selling softfeather breeds..


The author is an established member of the apparatchik. This is the bloke that has a controlling interest in the Standards where the old style pit fowl have been put to the side and labelled 'American' so that the exhibition fowl (including crow wing varieties that have been infused with silkie blood) can claim the Oxford label.

So, in his Australasian Poultry articles he admits to introducing the silkie blood into these fowls but then with his Australian Standards hat on, he argues that they are the real deal Oxford OEG.

Then he's offered and takes the task of judging 'Americans' at the Nats. Extraordinary stuff and surely not beyond questioning.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:23 pm 
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"FACT" Tutty used Silkie blood in his OEG bantans.......................
Didn't read it in a book, i was told by someone who was there............."that aint retarded Ian, thats fact LOL..................


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:49 pm 
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Quote:
Then he's offered and takes the task of judging 'Americans' at the Nats. Extraordinary stuff and surely not beyond questioning.


If he gets the job at the Nats, Bring it up in the Nats meeting and have a vote on if he ever judges a another show,2) The APS2 would want to see what they put into the APS3 very carefully...

Quote:
This is the bloke that has a controlling interest in the Standards where the old style pit fowl have been put to the side and labelled 'American'


The old style pit game or the first in Australia was bankiva , OEG come from them bankiva.. Yes same had black comb and skin of blochie skin.. But I don't think they had black bones like a silki..
Sorry to go off topic, Did you ever read about the extinct gamefowl from the UK called the "N" word. It was a black skin malay .. would of lov to seen that...

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Last edited by New England Poultry on Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:51 pm 
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There's a way cut your chicken and see if it has black bones, if it dose its a silki cross.lol

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:56 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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New England Poultry wrote:
Quote:

I had someone try to tell me it was also in my large Oxfords....id have to disagree with the use of silkie blood in large strains of oxford game fowl. No cocker of the day would have put silkie blood in his birds.
Some old strains of oxford showed the dark face from use of Sumatra blood etc. I was told the silkie blood was added to some show strains of bantam oeg here in Australia, and you can certainly see it in some birds with the inky black face and some times even the pearly blue/white ear lobes.......the hens showing the pearly blue/white ear lobes get left in the pen at home while the male gets as much of that white cut out as possible before showing...........lol
i certainly don't understand peoples interpretation of the standard here.... Mulberry face IS NOT inky black, its deep red.......
I was told that is the only way Australians got their dark face fowl because the birds that were imported here didn't come dark.
Im sure we all know plenty of illegal birds came here also and i would say any one in the sport here back in the day were not going to add silkie blood.
You can see plenty of birds in America, Phillipines etc and ill guarantee they didn't add none game blood.

It is amazing what some people will do to an animal just to win a prize.....lol.... next year they add something else because the fad has changed and so on and so on....


Its a known fact in Australia bankiva gamefowl were used in some line's of OEG and Pits.. In the day bankiva gamefowl came in Mulberry face and black face, single comb and pea comb. I even herd from old cockers that some even had white lobs.. And as I been told bankiva gamefowl were in Australia in the 1800's..


The Bankiva was used in the make up of Old English Games way way before the English Fowl were brought to Australia and if the Bankiva was continued to be used in the breeding of those fowl they would have stayed in a much smaller/lighter weight class more like the little spanish fowl.

There is some evidence that the Celts did keep domestic hens though evidence shows that they tended to be small and primitive reaching between 1 to 1.5 kilos. They were probably introduced by the Scythians, but it was the Celts that are given credit for their latter spread into Western Europe."

The Tribes of Europe had two breeds or types one is refered to by Zooarchaeology as the "wild type" like a Jungle fowl from 1 lb 12 ozs to 2 lb 3 ozs. The other is a primitive domestic fowl from 2 lb 12 ozs to 3 lb 5 ozs. Small Bankiva fowl. Basically Spanish Game.

That is pretty much how the fighting fowl of Britain remained until about the time of Henry the 8th. During the time of Queen Elizabeth when war broke out between Britain and Spain and links with Spain were broken. After that the Dutch became Englands new best friend and trade was established between them. It was also about this time the Huguenots came to Britain and it was about this time that large fowl became established in the UK. ....


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:38 pm 
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Quote:
The Bankiva was used in the make up of Old English Games way way before the English Fowl were brought to Australia and if the Bankiva was continued to be used in the breeding of those fowl they would have stayed in a much smaller/lighter weight class more like the little spanish fowl.


Not so Ricky,, here is a drawing of a Bankiva gamefowl by Herbert Atkinson somewhere in the pre-WW1 period. They were the first game fowl that were put in the pit ring in Australia and breed into OEG and helped make the Australian pit game.. I do believe Bankiva have die out in moden days here..

Image

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