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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:06 am 
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Showy Hen
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andrewschooks wrote:
They are lovely, they lay well and are pretty, friendly chooks generally. The main drawback from a pure-breeding perspective is they are blue. Let me explain, wen you mate a blue to a blue you get 25% splash (almost white), 50% blue and 25% black, so you effectively have to cull a half of your chicks from every generation up front. Many people don't like to do that.

Does this happen with all blue chook breeds?

Presumably the same mechanism is responsible for all blue chooks: 'blue' chooks have one 'blue gene' and one 'black gene' (I don't know their proper names) and through sexual genetic combination they pass on either a blue or a black to their offspring, with another blue or black coming from the other parent (assuming the same breed). Then each offspring has a 2 in 4 chance of getting a blue from one parent and a black from the other, producing a blue chook, but they have a 1 in 4 chance of getting blue from each parent, giving splash/lavender chook, and a 1 in 4 chance of getting black from each parent, giving a black chook.

I think I have this right! If not, someone please correct me!

I have 4 blue australorp babies of which there are two blacks, one splash and one blue, so the probabilities did not work out for me :-). However I don't plan on culling the blacks or lavender (well, except the little black boy who is already looking delicious), but then again, I am no breeder. But it does go to show that these are *only* probabilities, so it is quite possible to get 4 blues. Or 4 non-blues!

Question: If I mated the lavender/splash to a black roo, would I get 100% blue in the next generation? And if so, would the same happen with andalusians? (I have some of those in the incubator at the moment).

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 Post subject: Re: Sexing Andalusians
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:38 am 
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Great Game
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Location: Hamilton Vic
Lavender and splash are not the same. As you say splash is the result of 2 copies of the blue gene and yes if you mate with black you will get 100% blue offspring. I know that some people have called splash birds lavender but lavender is another gene which is recessive to black and unlike blue will breed true.


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 Post subject: Re: Sexing Andalusians
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:11 am 
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Showy Hen
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blackleghorn wrote:
Lavender and splash are not the same. As you say splash is the result of 2 copies of the blue gene and yes if you mate with black you will get 100% blue offspring. I know that some people have called splash birds lavender but lavender is another gene which is recessive to black and unlike blue will breed true.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was wondering how they were different.

So if someone wanted 100% blue, they'd keep their 1st generation blacks and splashes and use those to produce blue. All they'd have to do is wait for the second generation!

I guess what I have is a splash, which is pale grey with occasional dark grey blotches. And mated to another splash, ought to produce splash again, 100% of the time? But you'd never get a true lavender, I guess.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:49 am 
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Great Game
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Location: Hamilton Vic
that's right it is most unlikely that you would get lavender. It is possible that both parents could carry the lavender gene but this is unlikely in Australorps (or any other breed in which lavender has not been seen to date).

Most people who breed blues will use both black and splash birds in breeding pens although there are strong personal preferences.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Wise Wyandotte
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So back to the Andalusians.... If you breed blue to blue you get 25% splash and 25% black, neither of which are particularly special looking, the 50% blue ones are lovely however. If you breed blue to blue in a laced breed like Wyandottes for example, the splash, the blue and the black laced are all special in their own right.

A question to which I do not know the answer, is, would lavender work instead of blue in an Andalusian? Would you still get the lacing?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Prime Pekin
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Hi Andrew,

you pose a very interesting question? i would like to see the effects of this.

But i fear the crossing of andalusian to a lavender breed would destroy the lacing? I find Andalusian lacing very intriguing, as they are laced blue, most if not all other laced breeds either have gold or silver base(background colour) andalusians have blue? I have not played with this colour but i would eventually like to make laced blue rocks.

do you have experience with andalusians? if so what do the splash birds look like any lacings?

BR

Christian

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Interested in Plymouth Rocks, Breeder of Light Barred Standard


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:47 am 
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Wise Wyandotte
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Christian, I have some Andalusians, the splash ones are not laced. They are white with various blotches of blue or black on them as you often get with the splash colour on other breeds. The individual feathers or parts that are coloured are not laced either.

So they are a black bird based on a S silver background with blue. There is some conjecture as to the genetics of lacing, but I think the consensus for the Andalusians with good lacing is that it is based on the birchen gene ER and the same genes for lacing as other laced breeds. The interesting part however is they are basically a black bird with lacing that is hidden except in the blue genotype. That is different from other laced breeds.


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