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 Post subject: tumour on leg - UPDATE
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:46 pm 
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Hello

This growth has developed on Esmae's leg. It started as a small black coloured wart which she continually bit off. It has now developed into what you can see in the images. The growth appears to have come from within the leg as the scales have been pushed aside as the growth has grown.

Esmae has difficulty in walking, is a little lethargic and rests continually unless pushed to walk/run.

Any ideas to what it is and how to deal with it ?

I believe it maybe keratosis.

A trip to the avian vet has not been productive. He thought it was an ingrown hair that had become infected, but he is unsure. He did say he could surgically remove the growth but he held little hope in recovery as the skin on the leg is difficult to heal and the area is very large.

Esmae is roughly 5-7 years old and, other than this issue, has always been the alpha chicken of the flock and in good health. She no longer lays eggs.

This is a link to another post 1.5 years ago when the growth initially began http://www.australianpoultryforum.com/v ... 32&t=61048

Thanks for your time and advice appreciated, Chicken-Gal

PS - I also posted on the Australian Poultry Forum


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Last edited by chicken gal on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: tumour on leg
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:44 am 
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Golden Kingfisher
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That looks like a tumour of some kind, not an infection. Unfortunately I think the Vet is right that it’s a hard spot to remove tissue from.

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 Post subject: Re: tumour on leg
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:08 am 
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Thanks for the note Rach.

Although not good news its nice to hear that someone seconds the vet's decision.

My opinion is it's a growth (perhaps cancerous), but without a biopsy this cannot be substantiated.

Hopefully another member may have come across this in their travels and can shed more light on possible outcomes, etc.

Best, Chicken-gal


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 Post subject: Re: tumour on leg
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:44 am 
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Yes, hopefully someone has seen this before.

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 Post subject: Re: tumour on leg
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:15 pm 
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It may not be a tumour, so if you don't get any other advice, it couldn't hurt to try what I use for mite control, which sometimes get really bad...and that is, olive oil and mite powder, mixed together and rubbed into the area...leave for a couple of days, then maybe do again if nothing has happened...if and when it comes off, it will bleed, but chooks heal very quickly and a little warm salty water fixes many things, as well as cleaning the area...Tricia...(Patricia LC)


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 Post subject: Re: tumour on leg
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Thanks Patricia. It will not hurt to try.

Esmae Has stopped eating about a week ago and her keel bone is beginning to protrude. She is drinking which is good but spends most of her time sleeping in the corner with the occasional stiring.

She did have clear diarrea but this seems to have stopped as now there is nothing. An inspection last night revealed some lice but we removed them quickly. We also discovered small black ants crawling over her vent which we also removed. She now and again will go through the motion of pecking or walking where the others are, but it is becoming less so by the day.

Today she ate a very small piece of banana and a small bit of lettuce, however, when offering her some banana later in the day, she regurgitated from her beak a bubbly clear liquid which had the consistency of runny honey (bees). The liquid flowed from her beak as she looked at the ground. I am unsure what this is..

I have read that if they're not feeling well and their crops aren't working right, they can regurgitate mucous from their crop (where it's produced). Perhaps this is what I saw. She has no symptoms that would indicate respiratory problems.

Yesterday she began to smell slightly - which is new. We checked for sour crop and hardened crop but these appear OK.

Her leg is still problematic, however, this appears to be secondary to what is now happening. Perhaps the tumour is cancerous (?) we don’t know. Inspecting the tumour last night revealed it was translucent with exception of the basal area. The base of the tumour where it joins the skin has a high blood flow. I think you could cut the tumour off half way, but removing the basal area is problematic and her chance of surviving an operation is low as she is very weak. The tumour is now growing around her foot rather than growing lengthwise (see 2 attached pictures).

We are currently debating putting her down if there no improvement in a couple of days.

I dislike putting her down if there is any chance she will survive.

Chicken-gal


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Last edited by chicken gal on Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: tumour on leg
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Any further advice greatly appreciated


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 Post subject: Re: tumour on leg
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:33 pm 
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If afraid that is she’s started to smell (and it’s not because of poop or anything like that in her) then the likelihood is that her internal organs are shutting down and, awful as it is, beginning to actually decay. That is a horrible thing to realise but it is probably what is happening. The kindest thing to do would be to put her to sleep as soon as you can. I’m very, very sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: tumour on leg
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:52 pm 
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Thanks Rach. I thought this might be the case. Her eyes, wattle and comb are still bright though.

We just conducted another examination and the smell is not too bad tonight - barely noticeable if at all. We gave here a teaspoon of olive oil and some elctrolight in water via an eyedropper. Perhaps the calorific value in the olive oil may help her (it can't hurt!).

Here is a snap of Esmae for interest.

Kind Regards, Chicken-gal


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 Post subject: Re: tumour on leg
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Greetings

A quick update.

We have been giving Esmae (by eyedropper) olive oil and yakult (two night so far).

She is still not eating, but I have seen Esmae drinking. We gave her some water melon today which she spent some time pushing her beak into - but she didn't really swallow that much!

She pooped something interesting not seen before (see attached images). The yellow material is rubbery and there is no smell.

Could this be the remains of an egg yoke ?? I know it looks like egg, but this does mean it is!

He eyes are still bright, her comb and wattle are still red and her tail is erect on and off - although she is still very sick

Opinion is sought to what the poed remains are - ideas ?

Thank you, Chicken-gal


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:53 pm 
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It looks to me like that material is mixed up, which suggests to me that it’s all come from the one place - the intestines. I guess it’s always possible that it’s egg material though. Looks more like a caecal poo though (from the caecum, an offshoot of the intestines). When you say it’s rubbery - in what way exactly? Any other substance you’d liken it to?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:05 pm 
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70%cocoa wrote:
It looks to me like that material is mixed up, which suggests to me that it’s all come from the one place - the intestines. I guess it’s always possible that it’s egg material though. Looks more like a caecal poo though (from the caecum, an offshoot of the intestines). When you say it’s rubbery - in what way exactly? Any other substance you’d liken it to?


Hi Rach

The yellow material is rubbery - almost like cooked egg yoke that has been in the fridge too long and has become stale

Yes it could be runny caecal poo

Tonight we are starting antibiotics (Tetravet via an eye dropper). We will guess the amount needed but are thinking the mix is 1 gram per 1 litre of water. We will try and give her the contents of an eye dropper - unless someone with more experience chimes in

Poor Esmae - a leg issue and intestinal disorder that may or may not be related (cancer)

Kind Regards Chicken-gal


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:19 pm 
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The poop is worrying. The urates (white stuff) is normal in small quantities in (not every) poop from a healthy hen. It would normally top a solid poo. In a mammal it would be part of the urine. The green is bile colouring, which indicates malnutrition - if she is eating she is not properly digesting. The yellow, if it is rubbery, sounds like 'lash egg' material - basically pus, indicating a reproductive break down. Poor Esme is falling apart - you need to consider her welfare - do you euthanize her or do you let her die? If there is an infection, and if it is treatable, she needs a vet diagnosis and the most appropriate antibiotics need to be prescribed.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:50 pm 
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I have been following this thread, but late coming into the picture. I am sorry about esme. Did anyone ever do a biopsy on this growth? I feel sad to see her lingering in this way. Sometimes it is kinder to let go..... As hard as it is, especially after trying so hard to save her.

If you are persevering with treatment, then please get the nature of the growth confirmed. While you wait for test results, you may want to consider including an anti fungal as well as the tetracycline. Oral and topical. If she hasn't been eating and now the gut flora is getting killed off by the antibiotics, the yeasts will flourish and might make her feel worse. If the growth on her foot is necrotic, the anti fungal cream might help reduce one of the compounding factors contributing to her malaise. In any case, it won't make things worse.

I hope there is some resolution and relief for your poor girl.
Hugs to you.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:08 pm 
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Thank you for taking the time to reply

She has seen the vet twice over a few months and he refused to do a biopsy

As you know there are two issues - the tumour (?) and now a secondary infection which she has had for a week or so. Unfortunately the vet is away until Monday afternoon. Until then we have to contend with what we have. I tried another vet earlier today however they we not interested in birds - only cats and dogs. I am about to give her tetravet orally. It may not be the correct antibiotic, but it is all I have and it’s better than nothing.

I cannot add much else. Thank you. Chicken-gal


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