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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:39 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Molly is sick and it is baffling me what with. I took her to the vet last night and she couldn't find anything wrong with her except her temperature was slightly above normal and she was so placid. I have gone through the checklist in the hope that someone can advise me before she gets worse.

BASIC CHECK LIST FOR THE SICK BIRD

Age: 19 weeks
Breed: Silkie
Sex: Female

What symptoms have you noted?

As of 3 days ago - Doesn't move when I come near her, doesn't startle at all. I pick her up and she doesn't make a sound. She is a bit floppy when I pick her up - doesn't hold her weight up. Eating in morning but not eating grass throughout day and not eating at evening meal. Not really drinking. Funny posture (described below). Not socialising, listless, no energy. Sitting or standing at back door for the whole day unless I pick her up and move her. Not showing any interest in being with the other chickens. More sleepy that should be, but when awake still pretty alert - cleans herself, eyes open looking at me, not that sort of 'given up' look. Slightly high temp.

She has always been very placid since I got her (two months ago), I could pick her up easily and she was most happy just sitting on my lap, and she has always been a bit floppy and unbalanced when standing on my hand - so it isn't a huge change in behaviour, just enough to make me worried.

Full droppings description.

colour - greenish (noticably)
consistency - either solid & greenish, or very watery
frequency - normal
offensive smell - none

Please note if you have/can observe any changes in the following:
Respiration?
- eg. breathing sounds, discharge, laboured breathing, facial swelling


No problems, breathing normal, no discharge, eyes clear.

Condition?
- eg. Weight, comb/wattle colour, feathering, skin


Lost 20g in last 3 days, still good weight, breast bone not prominent. Skin good, feathers good (vet said she looks in really good condition)

Behaviour?
- inc. socialising, feeding, laying, crowing, energy


Not socialising, not moving around, just sitting in grit bowl or over grate & not sticking with the others when they move around. Funny posture - head lowered and back hunched (in contrast to normally seeing a slight concave arch in back and then tail upright, her back is rounded & tail lowered). Eats when I put her in her food, then walks back straight away to sit on grit bowl. Will not walk to food herself. Not really drinking (once this morning, and once yesterday). Not laying yet. No energy, seems sleepy. Picking at her feet a little but the vet and I couldn't see anything wrong with them.

Agility?
- eg. any lameness, favouring


None, can walk fine but chosing not to run even if I push her (sound mean, sorry Molly!)

When was the bird last wormed?

8 weeks ago but vet recommended doing her again now which I will try to do tomorrow. Found a few lice around vent on Molly only (strange only on the sick one?), have sprayed all birds and no evidence of lice anymore.

Any other recent medications?

Had two 5 day courses of Sulpha Quin in last 4 weeks. All birds had blood in their droppings after two lots of heavy rain. Just finished 2nd course two days ago. Vet gave her shot of Baytril and shot of anti-inflammatories to take her temp down. I have a 5 day treatment of Baytril to give her as well. No improvement since had the meds though.

Other changes?
– to the flock, housing, extreme weather


They are free range and it has been really bad weather - some days hot, then muddy ground, cold, wet, windy. My young pekin bantam got a respiratory infection last week & was treated & better now, but Molly's chest sounds clear with stethoscope (but vet gave Baytril yesterday just in case she also picked it up). Bedding is sawdust and is dry and warm, just cleaned out and sanitised a few days ago.

Any help appreciated because i'm at a loss and I really don't want to lose her! The vet said just to cover all bases, hence the antibiotics & anti-inflammatories given, and ivermectin to do asap. Sulpha Quin just done, so she said no point in doing again. I know some of you don't agree with antibiotics but please keep in mind she is a loved pet and not for breeding or eating!

Cheers, Alli

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Last edited by amcine01 on Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:45 pm 
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Clever Cockerel
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Could she have picked up a tick?? Sorry, I really have no idea! Someone else with some experience at this sort of thing will come in soon and give you a better idea of what it could be.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:48 pm 
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Gallant Game
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Although I am relatively new to chooks - it certaintly sounds like cocci to me. You could have been explaining my roo that died last week. He was treated with Sulpha Quin as well but didn't make it.

Also the quietness thing - Bahh (my roo) was always quiet and calm. That is why he was my daughters favourite as she would carry him around - she called him Bahh. I think he was always a little weak - hence the quietness. He also would sometimes sit still and slightly nod his head as if he was dozing off. As he was growing up he ate lots of vegemite sandwiches and pieces of meat as my daughter liked to hand feed him.

Last week we had some storms followed by very hot weather and he became sick again but died overnight. After researching diferent illnesses I decided he had a compromised imunity and died of coci.

I hope your girl pulls through.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:06 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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mittymoo - I don't think she has a tick although i'm right on the National Park... I would have thought she'd be more obviously sick, with some paralysis maybe? I'll have a feel over her tomorrow anyway.

car2522 - she does sound exactly like your roo, and i'm wondering if Molly's peaceful quiet nature, which I love, is a sign of a weakness of some sort, cuz the others are fine (but not as friendly as her)?

I hope she makes it! Anyone have any suggestions for natural bug fighting remedies? I've mixed some yoghurt and honey in with her feed which she liked, but I can't find molassas anywhere local to flush out her system.

Alli

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 Post subject: cocci
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:12 pm 
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If you do think she still has coccidiosis you may need to retreat after a break. Sometimes it can linger for quite a while. Unfortunately, it sounds like her system is being bombarded with three different drugs (sulphaquin, ivermectin & antibiotics), so I wouldn't be in a rush, just observe for a bit. If you see any blood in the droppings again then retreat.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:59 pm 
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Gallant Game
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You can buy molasses at Stock feed places - but I think you will need the horse molasses not cow molasses. They add something to cow-molasses that will kill horses - not sure about chooks but better safe than sorry.

It may be a coincidence but Bahh got better twice a couple of days after eating vegemite. Maybe something in it that helps the digestive tract - I also like it when I have an upset stomach??

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:06 am 
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Golden Robin
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Alli

I read this last night but had been working all day and had a couple of of wines before reading your post and decided my response be more useful when I am fresh in the morning.

You doing all the right things - you have wormed, you have treated for coccidioisis and also given anti- inflamatories and antibiotics. She is pretty well a cocktail at the moment.

I wouldn't throw any more medicines down her throat except for those prescribed by the vet. You said she had a slightly elevated temperature and that happens. But,, you can be fairly sure she doesn't have a raging infection (either viral or bacterial) as the temperature would be quite elevated. So for the moment, forget about infections and that includes coccidiosis.

Lots of things can go wrong in any animals body. It happens in humans and doctors have access to to a huge range of diagnostic equipent from body scanners to pathology tests and a whole lot in between. Vets also have the same access but its very much a user pay and believe me its expensive.

But when you consider that a race horse may be worth a million dolllars and has the potential to win several million more you understand why they are willing to pay for expensive tests.

So we come back to your sick chook. Its just not practical to have all those diagnostic procedures performed. You could find a avian specialist vet (phonebook) and take you chook there for a second opinion. I know there are several in western Sydney although I dont have their names and addresses handy.

One thing you can try is to put your chook onto the rickets diet as a supplement to what its currently eating - not a replacement. Its a good tonic and if the bird is simply run down due to some internal setback then it will help.

Basically it is:
1/2 to 1 cooked egg yolk - crumbled into mixture
1 teaspoon honey
2 tablespoons of natural yogurt,
2 to 4 tablespoons of rolled oats
A few grains of multi vitamin powder
2 tablespoons of grated apple

For any animal the passage from life to old age is a very difficult one. Many simply dont make it and again the same applies to humans despite our medicines and technology. You can only try your best and care for the chook making it feel loved.

So try the ricketts diet (I dont think for a moment it has ricketts but its a good tonic). Source and see a specialist avian vet. Care for and love it as best you can.

I would be wary about any natural remedies at the moment because unless you know what is wrong and what needs treating then they are just another cocktail being thrown into a sick chooks system. I dont have a problem with natural remedies but there is no such thing as a miracle cure. Specific ingrediants treat specific problems. You need to know what you are treating for.

Hope this helps

Mike

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 Post subject: advice
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:42 am 
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Sounds like good advice Mike. Sometimes we get so concerned about 'fixing' our birds that we forget that we can only help them to fix themselves. Good nourishment, good housing, protection from stress, and time for the chook's body to do what it's designed to do is sometimes the best treatment plan. It makes sense to me anyway.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:17 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Hi again, just an update.

The poor little cocktail is just as sick if not sicker, she is seeming to lose weight fast.

I also agree with what has been said about 'fixing' and now that I have done all medically I think I can without (hopefully) putting her body under too much stress, i'll see how she goes for awhile with just rest and food.

At the moment I have decided it is too late to isolate her from her friends and it might distress them all anyway. They seem to be helping encourage her and gather around her most of the time anyway.

I have been picking her up and putting her in front of her water and food three times a day which she then picks at (but doesn't walk to herself), and have made up the rickets diet as well as pullet grower for her.

Other than that i'm leaving her alone. It was nice and sunny today and she has a nice warm sheltered house to sleep in at night so i'll leave her for a few days and see how she gets on herself for a bit. Horrible to see her so weak still though.

Alli

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...and a gentle bullmastiff 'Otis'

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:15 am 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Sounds like Cocci to me. When you medicated did you beak treat your little silkie. If you didn't she may not have taken in enough medication to treat the disease. Personally I would be mixing up the sulphaquin as directed and use a syringe to administer meds at least 4 times a day to make sure she was actually taking the medication in. The at the end of the course give the molasses water. Don't feed too much protien at the moment just ry to get her thtough first as cocci feeds off protien.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:27 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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County Lodge - No I didn't beak treat her. All the birds had blood in their droppings so I put in water for all at dose specified. It's only now that she is the only one sick, but they were all drinking the water at the time, and now i'm scared to treat her again on her own...

Can I get confirmation of something - if she has no blood in her droppings (checked for three days), but she has very watery green droppings... does that mean that it isn't cocci now, or can it still be cocci but just in a really sick bird??

Alli

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...and a gentle bullmastiff 'Otis'

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:07 pm 
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Phoenix
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My opinion is she is very sick and not with cocci-there is no more you can do for her except what you are doing food ,warmth,antibiotics and see how she goes.
The green droppings are the thing that is not good along with the dramatic weight loss.


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 Post subject: green droppings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:35 pm 
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Green droppings are because she isn't eating very much at all. It's a build up of bile. It's a sign that she is not being well nourished.


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 Post subject: New questions
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:01 am 
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Proud Rooster
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Does anyone have any suggestions how I can encourage her to eat more?

Anyone know why she seems scared of the grass and when I put her on it she runs back to the grate to stand on it again and wont move?

If I put mollassas in her water would that be a good sugar pick me up, or would it be a laxative which would flush out the small amount she is eating?

Alli

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...and a gentle bullmastiff 'Otis'

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:57 pm 
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I think you should take a faecal sample to your vet for analysis that way you can find out if its parasitic or not. Green dropping can be a sign of liver disease This would make her inappetent. good luck


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