Backyard Poultry Forum • View topic - Chemical Castration of Roosters

Backyard Poultry Forum

Chickens, waterfowl & all poultry - home of exhibition & backyard poultry in Australia & New Zealand
Login with a social network:
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:52 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:43 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 248
Location: Capalaba, Brissy, QLD
Chemical castration of roosters and/or drakes, ganders, etc (pre-pubescent and mature birds) can be achieved via off-label use of an anti-testosterone implant designed for use in dogs. It's called Suprelorin and is a vet-only product requiring some expertise to achieve painless injection into the breast muscle of birds (it's a whopping great 12g needle).
Pros are fairly obvious: no testosterone based behaviour (cranky roos that attack you, randy drakes that rape your gumboots, etc); AND if performed in the pre-pubescent or pubescent bird [before crowing becomes a learned behaviour], will eliminate crowing; no fighting between the boys over the girls (or lack thereof :wink: ); zero fertility after about 5 days in implanted birds so you can be sure who daddy is going to be.
Cons are a bit more complex. Aside from the off-label use (which just means your vet needs to explain to you that this medication is not registered for use in avians but has been used in practice enough for him/her to be satisfied that it is safe), the cost can be inhibitory if you are implanting lots of birds. I generally use the six-month implant in avians when implanting an individual for the first time, and we can get 2 years + of fertility control in some birds at this dose. Others will wear off right on the six months and the next time we'll use 12 month implants in those individuals. I have a feeling it may be weight & metabolism related, but I'll have to do a few more before I'm sure, as I've only implanted a dozen or so birds at these stage - and mostly parrots. Cost can range from $80 - $120 and upwards per implant depending on your vet & which implant your bird needs. Variability of length of control can be another issue - because we don't necessarily know for how long the implant will control fertility as mentioned above. The bird can also never be eaten after having the implant (but that fits if the reason you're implanting your extra roos is that you don't want to eat them). Males can also lose their secondary sexual characteristics and become somewhat feminised in appearance in comparison with an entire male bird. But as long as you don't call them sissies they seem not to mind. :lol:
Ummm... I think that's about it. Feel free to ask any Q's and I'll answer them if I can.
Cheers, Jodie.

_________________
Mad chook-loving veterinarian, wife, mother of three 2-legged daughters & many furred and feathered family members.
I like rare breeds with pretty coloured eggs!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:46 pm 
Offline
Golden Robin
Golden Robin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:07 am
Posts: 17917
Location: toodyay, WA
fascinating, this sure beats the surgical decrowing of birds that many people ask about.

_________________
Anconas, Silkies and Pekins :) Caladenia Cottage
Silkies
Wonderful Silkies


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:49 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 248
Location: Capalaba, Brissy, QLD
Gods, yes! Decrowing is such a barbaric surgery. I like it about as much as tail docking, which thank god is now illegal here in QLD.

_________________
Mad chook-loving veterinarian, wife, mother of three 2-legged daughters & many furred and feathered family members.
I like rare breeds with pretty coloured eggs!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:52 pm 
Offline
Golden Robin
Golden Robin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:07 am
Posts: 17917
Location: toodyay, WA
maybe you could check the information in this post for me and add your comments if needed.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7218

cheers
jacquie.

_________________
Anconas, Silkies and Pekins :) Caladenia Cottage
Silkies
Wonderful Silkies


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:58 pm 
Offline
Golden Magpie
Golden Magpie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:26 pm
Posts: 16669
Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
Thanks Jodie

Exactly what I was after - I will masticate it and maybe come back for a reword for a "sticky" suitable for the masses.

Its a viable option and thanks

Mike

_________________
Retired Now - Have moved and can be found sitting on a boat with a bit of string in the water with a fish enticing safety pin at the end of it. Officially a Tuross Head resident.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:20 am 
Offline
Fiesty Fowl
Fiesty Fowl
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:15 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Newcastle
I don't really get it. You have a rooster to breed with. If it can't breed, why would you have one? I understand they often become beloved family pets, but I just can't seem to get my head around the benefits of having a sterile rooster. Even if it only lasts 6months- you can't be totally sure, you may end up with a sterile rooster hanging around, eating feed for 2 years. By which stage you could have bred a better one. Am I missing something?

This isnt a criticism, I understand about suprelorin in dogs, often breeders want that time for a bitch to mature etc, but i'm just a bit confused by its practical benefits in poultry :hmmm:

_________________
You don't have a snail infestation problem, it's a lack of ducks problem


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:28 am 
Offline
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 8:44 am
Posts: 30660
Location: Morayfield, SEQ
People keep castrated cats and dogs for pets - why not roosters? But I get your point Teeni, I don't think I would be doing my prize breeders just in case. :D

Dr Jodie, thanks for the interesting information. Why would people do parrots? They dont' have the crowing issues. Is it to settle the screechy agro behaviour in the boys? I've hand raised many galahs and sc cockatoos before and in their second year they seem to get really cranky. What about the early evening upside down screeching? Would this stop that behaviour? It would also be kinda nice if they didn't always want to mate with the arms of people that were holding them (like the dog on the leg thing), so I guess it would have to help with that. Or do people do it because they have a lot of boys in an aviary and want to control who the father of the chicks are? My birds always pair so I would always know anyway.

_________________
image
Backyard Poultry Forum
Feather Clubs Association of Qld


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:13 am 
Offline
Old Mother Goose
Old Mother Goose
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:27 pm
Posts: 7497
Location: Blue Mountains NSW
Wow, that is very interesting.
Thank you very much.

_________________
Lucy C and The Blue Mountains Menagerie
1 God, 1 husband, 2 Teens, 2 Dogs, 7 Sussex, 3 Wyandottes, 8 Silkies, 1 Barnevelder, 3 Budgies & 3 Goats


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:15 am 
Offline
Fiesty Fowl
Fiesty Fowl
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:15 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Newcastle
Ok, I thought it was a pet thing.People have all sorts of critters as pets, so why not a rooster. I suppose its good to save people having to rehome roos that they love, and they do look prety strutting around the garden, and they make good "compost bins"

The farming side of me just borks at it, same as pet vermin, like rabbits and rats etc, its funny, you get brought up a certain way and your brain just automatically jumps to conclusions

_________________
You don't have a snail infestation problem, it's a lack of ducks problem


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:56 am 
Offline
Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:52 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Sydney south, NSW
I would have loved to keep my rooster Mr P, I had to give him to a farm 4hrs away because of his crowing, and I still miss him. I was very attached to him and would have loved an option to keep him.

Being in a very small place with my limit of chooks I wouldn't have bred from him anyway.

Thanks for the info.

_________________
**Pekin Bantams, Silkies, Frizzles, Easter Eggers, Japanese Bantams**

...and a gentle bullmastiff 'Otis'

Registered animal foster carer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:24 am 
Offline
Junior Champion Bird
Junior Champion Bird
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:06 am
Posts: 680
Location: Gordon Victoria
My husband loves the Roos.He said they are so much prettier than the average hen.Look at their gorgeous tails and hackles and colours and they do make great pets.You see all the adds trying to give roos away and saying not for the pot...well most do go in the pot.Maybe some of them would get a chance at being a pet in the city if they didnt crow and make so much darn noise.It would be great for breeders who need to keep lots of Roos but live on small landholdings like me.As the procedure lasts 6 months you could rotate your Roos(keep the feminine ones :rofl: in a pen together and no crowing and fighting) and maybe if more people wanted to do the procedures then it could be timed to maybe 3 months so rotate on a quarterly basis.
It would stop the crowing wouldnt it?or maybe it would be squeaky :lol:

_________________
Belgian D'uccles many colours
Bantam Gold Laced Wyandottes
Japanese Frizzles
Bantam Rosecombs Black
Japanese Bantams


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:30 am 
Offline
Flock Master
Flock Master

Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 12:32 pm
Posts: 2175
Are you sure they stop crowing once chemically treated... my cats still act like male cats even though they have been desexed.. hmmmm something to think about ..

_________________
Sandy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:41 am 
Offline
Golden Magpie
Golden Magpie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:26 pm
Posts: 16669
Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
I think there were a couple of keywords in there

"Pre-pubescent" and "before crowing becomes a learned behaviour pattern". The other aspects are more directly reated to controlling fertility rather than behaviour.

I am a litrtle bit out of my experience on the next point but I think most tom cats get desexed at the point they have already become toms. We have also had toms desexed to stop spraying etc and it made no difference. But other cats desexed as kittens were fine.

Open for contradiction though.

Mike

_________________
Retired Now - Have moved and can be found sitting on a boat with a bit of string in the water with a fish enticing safety pin at the end of it. Officially a Tuross Head resident.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:32 am 
Offline
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 8:44 am
Posts: 30660
Location: Morayfield, SEQ
Well, I'm not a vet and don't really understand how the rooster crows, but your comment about pre-pubescence makes me think of the castrati. They were done at around the age of 7-9, well before puberty, and they didn't have any difficulties producing volume - they just had the vocal range of a female soprano, although the quality was different. Due to the hormonal changes, they did develop long lanky limbs, and female body fat patterns. As for behaviour - I probably can't comment about that on this forum.

Anyway, roosters are roosters, cats are cats, and humans are humans - just musing really.

_________________
image
Backyard Poultry Forum
Feather Clubs Association of Qld


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:42 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 248
Location: Capalaba, Brissy, QLD
caladenia wrote:
maybe you could check the information in this post for me and add your comments if needed.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7218
cheers
jacquie.

Jacquie - that info is great and spot-on!
Teeni wrote:
I don't really get it. You have a rooster to breed with. If it can't breed, why would you have one?

Teeni - it's just the pet rooster thing, not intended for breeding control in birds you may want to use as sires in the future. This post originated after I mentioned Suprelorin in conjunction with my children telling me that we don't eat our family and friends, so if we get any roos, they're staying attached to their heads. :biggrin: City kids! :roll:
Chicken07 wrote:
Why would people do parrots?

Chicken07 - mostly to control testosterone related behavioural problems, particulary aggression, both towards people and other birds (people sometimes buy a pair thinking they're getting 2 girls, or a boy and a girl, and instead end up with 2 boys), as well as limiting that mastabatory behaviour that's so embarrassing when you have guests and your parrot decides to make love to their arm, hair, handbag, etc.
Sandy wrote:
Are you sure they stop crowing once chemically treated... my cats still act like male cats even though they have been desexed.. hmmmm something to think about ..

Chicken07 wrote:
Well, I'm not a vet and don't really understand how the rooster crows, but your comment about pre-pubescence makes me think of the castrati. They were done at around the age of 7-9, well before puberty, and they didn't have any difficulties producing volume - they just had the vocal range of a female soprano, although the quality was different.

Mike's right as far as having to implant Suprelorin before crowing becomes learned behaviour. If you think about it this way, it might be easier to understand: All chickens, both male and female are capable of producing the same sounds until puberty. At puberty testosterone pushes an "on" button in roos and the syrinx becomes more fully developed than in hens. (See Jacquie's post http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7218) Testosterone also pushes another "on" button in the brain of roos, which opens a pathway that starts that typical male pattern behaviour, such as crowing and chasing the girls. At this early stage, the pathway is very tenuous, and the "on" button needs to be pushed regularly to stimulate it, which it is by rising testosterone levels during puberty. After any behaviour is repeated often enough, the pathways in the brain become cemented firmly in place, and are repeated without the "on" button every needing to be pushed. So in a mature rooster, who has been crowing for a while, taking away his testosterone won't change the crowing because he doesn't need that "on" button pushed to perform the behaviour any more. Same thing in tomcats who spray and wander and fight and then are desexed as opposed to kittens who are desexed before they learn that behaviour.
Chicken07 wrote:
Anyway, roosters are roosters, cats are cats, and humans are humans - just musing really.

You're right, people are a whole different kettle of fish! Because of our developed frontal cortex and advanced reasoning and problem solving abilities, we can teach ourselves lots of things without the need for any "on" buttons. For example, sexual behaviour in castrati - given human nature, it was probably a case of being told they were asexual that made them overtly oversexed in behavioural terms.
Wow - sorry for the long post!
Cheers,
Jodie.

_________________
Mad chook-loving veterinarian, wife, mother of three 2-legged daughters & many furred and feathered family members.
I like rare breeds with pretty coloured eggs!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
©2004-2014 Backyardpoultry.com. Content rights reserved
freestone