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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:33 am 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

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Location: Tolmie,North East Victoria
My beautiful black runner drake can't stand on his feet. He was fine yesterday morning when I let him out, but yesterday arvo he could only shuffle around trying to keep up with the other ducks and getting stood on and left behind. We caught him and confined him to the duck pen, this morning he is no better. I have just read the sticky on botulism, could this be the cause? Can anyone help me with a cause for his condition and what can I do for the poor thing??

Allison


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:47 am 
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Golden Robin
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Hi
It can be many things - including snake bite or spider bite and other forms of poisoning. I really need you to go into the green section and then cut and paste the basic check list into this thread and fill in as many details as possible.

On botulism specifically - go to the duck and grab a handfull of feathers and give them a yank. It doesn't need brute force but a characterisitic of botulism is that the toxin relaxes muscle and that includes the muscles that hold in the feathers. If they come out easily then botulism climbs in the list of possibilities. If they are firmly in place then its less likely.

Give me the details in the checklist.
Mike

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:54 am
Posts: 397
Location: Tolmie,North East Victoria
BASIC CHECK LIST FOR THE SICK BIRD
Please answer these brief questions below, so we can help you as soon as possible.

Age:6 months
Breed:runner duck
Sex:male

Your Location- country, state (different areas/climates have different problems)
ANSWER:north east victoria, Tolmie near Mansfield

What is wrong? What symptoms have you noted? - As much detail as possible please.
ANSWER:cant use his feet, shuffling along on "elbows"

Full droppings description.- colour, consistency, frequency, offensive smell.
ANSWER: have not seen any droppings, will go and have another look soon

Respiratory Changes?- eg. breathing sounds, discharge, laboured breathing, facial swelling
ANSWER:none seen

Digestive Changes?- eg. eating, drinking, crop filling & emptying
ANSWER:none seen

Condition Changes?- eg. Weight, comb/wattle colour, skin, feathering
ANSWER:still drinking, has not lost weight

Behavioural Changes?- inc. socialising, laying, crowing, broodiness
ANSWER:none

Agility Changes? - eg. any lameness, favouring, energy levels
ANSWER:

Describe your usual worming routine and products. [If none, say so and skip the next 3 worming questions.] Do you have a cycle that you use eg. every 3 months, or every six months?
ANSWER:have never wormed the ducks

1. When was the bird last wormed??- approximate date.
ANSWER:

2. What product was used to worm the bird, and how was it given? ? eg. in the drinking water, on the skin, by injection?
ANSWER:

3. Was a follow up dose given? (eg. 10-14 days later)
ANSWER:

Any other recent medications?- antibiotics, coccidiosis meds, herbal remedies, etc
ANSWER:none

Other changes? – additions to the flock, diet, housing, extreme weather
ANSWER:none, weather is mild here, but very dry

Photos? – any relevant photos are very helpful
INSERT HERE:going up to duck yard with camera now

Now, once you have posted with all the above information, please follow this link...
viewtopic.php?t=7955660
...and answer as many of the questions found in those check lists as you can, then get back to us with anything you haven't covered above.


Last edited by Sammiiz on Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:30 am, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Golden Robin
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Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
Okay - very interested in seeing the photos - especially what the feet are doing while he is shuffling along.

Dont forget the feather test.

Also at some stage grab him and turn him on his back - check for injury, swelling and bruising on his legs - feel for broken bones. Then while he on his back take each leg in turn and fully extend it and then fully push it into its bent position. You are feeling to see if the drake leg has resistance to your movement. IE, difference between paralysis and lameness.

Also check for lumps and foreighn bodies as well as signs of infection on the underside of his feet.

Mike

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:54 am
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Location: Tolmie,North East Victoria
Image

thanks for replying so fast Mike. When I was taking the photo I noticed that he was shivering (its not cold). It seemed to be the wings that were trembling. Last night I checked his feet, they looked fine, no wounds or sign of infection. I will go and check for leg resistance as you suggest. When I went up to take the pic he was standing upright and looked almost normal, except his tail was right down. He took a few steps on his feet and I thought he was recovering, then he fell down again to the position in the pic. See how he is sitting on the joint above the feet (the elbow? hock?), well that's what he is trying to walk on, he has taken the skin off these joints trying to keep up with the others yesterday.

Allison


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:58 pm 
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Golden Robin
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Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
Okay
Thanks Allie

A couple of good things here - you dont need to check for leg resistance - he has use of his legs as he is walking on his hocks and trying to stand. If the legs were paralysed they would be useless and dragging behind him. You did imply he was walking on hs wings which is why I wings that way.

He has his head up which is a good sign. I would be going towards a spider bite or some sort of poisoning, maybe even snakebite but they are all just guesses. I also havn't ruled out some spinal injury in the lower back though. Maybe a heavy landing from a perch or something ? Check the back for claw marks (cat, eagle etc) and for teeth marks (fox, dog etc).

A vet would give some anti-inflamatories to ease pain and aid recovery but that would require a consultation. I guess the next few days will tell.

Mike

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:54 am
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Location: Tolmie,North East Victoria
I will keep him confined and see what happens. I was wondering about a back or spine injury too as his tail doesn't look right when he tries to stand. Don't know what he could have jumped off though. Wouldn't a snake bite just kill the bird? We have had a lot of copperheads around this year. Sorry about misunderstanding about hocks, I has a complete blank about describing the joint above the foot. :oops: Thanks for your help Mike

Allison


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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He's beautiful! Hope he gets better soon. :biggrin:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:00 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:54 am
Posts: 397
Location: Tolmie,North East Victoria
Image

this photo shows the way he is trying to stand better than the other pic.

I think he is beautiful too, Egg Egg, he is not a perfect runner duck shape, not upright enough, and not quite a perfect colour, with the white spot on his head, but I like him anyway!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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I love the green, blue and purple sheen. :biggrin:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:22 pm 
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Golden Robin
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Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
Allie

That is a much better photo and because of that I went and read your checklist a lot more closely.

Young birds nearing adulthood often get a growth spurt and the demand on their bodies strips them of nutrient reserves. This means that developing bones (particulalry leg bones) become soft instead of the new bone hardening. Its often called Ricketts and there are more technical aspects to the explanation but basically its ricketts never-the-less.

I suggest you prepare the ricketts diet and feed that to the duck for a few days and see if he rapidly improves.

Basically it is:
1/2 to 1 cooked egg yolk - crumbled into mixture
1 teaspoon honey
2 tablespoons of natural yogurt,
2 to 4 tablespoons of rolled oats
A few grains of multi vitamin powder
2 tablespoons of grated apple

Mike

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:26 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

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Location: Tolmie,North East Victoria
OK, I can do that, what sort of multi vitamin powder should I get? Do I get one from the vet?

Allison


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Golden Robin
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Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
Allie
What ever you have - doesn't need a vet trip whatever is in the house or even from a chemist. Just use a few grains as its important not to over dose vitamins.

Mike

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Retired Now. Have moved and now officially a Tuross Head resident.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

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Location: Tolmie,North East Victoria
He looked at the food as if to say "I'm not eating THAT" and sat in the corner... :shock: will try again tomorrow but not hopeful

Allison


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Golden Robin
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Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
Open his stubborn mouth and put some on the lower beak - dont push it down his throat thought. Just on his lower beak and let him swallow it.

Mike

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