Backyard Poultry Forum • View topic - abamectin( confused!!! )

Backyard Poultry Forum

Chickens, waterfowl & all poultry - home of exhibition & backyard poultry in Australia & New Zealand
Login with a social network:
It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:50 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: abamectin( confused!!! )
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:16 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:53 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Perth W.A
Hi all i have been given Anamectin with selenium

0.8g/l abamectin 0.4g/l selenium

I have prevously used cydectin to get rid of stick fast fleas but i think they are getting immuned to it.
I have used it three times in a row on every 14th day to try and break the cycle.
I have also cleaned and sprayed everything and they still have them.So i thought a change in the chemical might be an option

my questions are:

Will the selenium over dose my chooks?

Has anyone used this before?
PLEASE help as i will be doing the chooks tonight with the help of my lovely mother so i'll either use the abamectin or cydectin
thanks
Renae

_________________
Mother of 2 children, 60 chooks, 5 horses 1 in foal, 2 dogs, 1 cat, 9 gold fish and i can't forget being wife when i have time....... :)
Treat others how you want to be treated!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:43 pm 
Offline
Golden Magpie
Golden Magpie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:26 pm
Posts: 16756
Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
Lets be a bit careful here. The mectin range has a good tolerance for over dosing but it needs a bit of time for it to metabolise and be excreted. Whilst a single over dose may not affect an animal continually loading up the liver and the body with a mectin will cause problems.

If I read this correctly - this will be fourth time in eight weeks these chooks will be dosed with a mectin.

I think I would wait another couple of weeks before dosing again. This would apply for for cydectin or abamectin. The selenium wont hurt per se and its not the issue.

I dont have an easy answer for the stick fast fleas that are apparently not responding to the mectin but I do think a bit of caution is necessary in this case.

I would welcome a vet's comment here.

Mike

_________________
Retired Now - Have moved and can be found sitting on a boat with a bit of string in the water with a fish enticing safety pin at the end of it. Officially a Tuross Head resident.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:13 pm 
Offline
Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 315
Location: Capalaba, Brissy, QLD
I would also advise caution - the half life of the avermectin group in fatty tissues can be >30 days (Craigmill AL, Cortright KA. Interspecies Considerations in the Evaluation of Human Food Safety for Veterinary Drugs. AAPS PharmSci. 2002; 4 (4): article 34. DOI: 10.1208/ps040434), so your chickens are already at risk of cumulative overdose. Toxic signs are dose related in poultry (Mectins posioning vs Avermectin poisoning; Unpublished; Yang CC. 1. Department of Environmental and Occupational Medicine, School of Medicine, National Yang-Ming University, Taipei) so the more you give them, the more likely they are to start showing clinical signs of toxicity.
In fact, my advice to one of my clients would be to give them a full 3 months off the avermectin group. Try using some old-fashioned, but effective, remedies for the stick fast fleas - I believe olive oil rubbed into the fleas suffocates them and they can then be removed. Good husbandry and hygiene (you might have to scrub out the whole coop then spray with a natural pyrethrin based insecticide) should allow you to get on top of the problem without resorting to more 'mectins.
Cheers,
Jodie.

_________________
Mad chook-loving veterinarian, wife, mother of three 2-legged daughters & many furred and feathered family members.
I like rare breeds with pretty coloured eggs!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:20 pm 
Offline
Old Mother Goose
Old Mother Goose
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:51 pm
Posts: 6318
Location: Berwick, VIC
Vet's official comment here - I don't know what levels of Selenium a chook can tolerate but it is a mineral that can easily be overdosed in supplementation of other species and cause serious toxicities. It also depends on the soil Se content in your local area and also in the areas where the grains that you feed your chook are grown. Some soils in Australia are Se deficient, others are Se ok or high.
I would feel happy to give a chook a vitamin / mineral supplement designed for birds that has Se in it. But I would not feel confident giving a chook a Se supplement designed for different species eg cattle.

The mectin is generally regarded as a common off-label used drug for poultry, I have no probs with that.

Selenium won't help to kill the stickie fleas anyway.
They are difficult to eradicate, keep at it.
Maybe try Frontline spray.

_________________
Meredith


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:24 pm 
Offline
Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 315
Location: Capalaba, Brissy, QLD
Oh, ditto Meredith's comment about Selenium - I got so hung up on the 'mectins that I totally forgot that part of it :oops:
This is why I don't consult while reading my three year old a story IRL!
Cheers,
Jodie.

_________________
Mad chook-loving veterinarian, wife, mother of three 2-legged daughters & many furred and feathered family members.
I like rare breeds with pretty coloured eggs!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:26 pm 
Offline
Golden Magpie
Golden Magpie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:26 pm
Posts: 16756
Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
Thanks Jodie and Meredith. I was just uncomfortable with the entire scenario.

Mike

_________________
Retired Now - Have moved and can be found sitting on a boat with a bit of string in the water with a fish enticing safety pin at the end of it. Officially a Tuross Head resident.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:45 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:53 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Perth W.A
Thanks for everyones info.

I didn't used any mectins, so i will give them the break as suggested.

I have cleaned ( scrubbed ) out all my pens and i have used coopex and malawash for the pens aswell as the mectin for the skin and i still can't get rid of them. I had read and was given some info on the mectins and it was suggested to follow up between 12 - 14 days for 3 - 4 times max so that was what i did.

I do used oil and / or vasiline but i have over 60 chooks so it can get a bit much catching every chook and gets really messy :shock:

I find the oil is great but it doesn't eliminate all the stickys.

They are like an army they just keep on coming no matter what i do :transform: :transform:

I must admit they arn't as bad but i just want them gone :upset: :upset: :upset:

Has anyone had or got this same problem? I just don't no where to go from here because if i stop treatment they will come back with avengance :transform: :transform:
Renae

_________________
Mother of 2 children, 60 chooks, 5 horses 1 in foal, 2 dogs, 1 cat, 9 gold fish and i can't forget being wife when i have time....... :)
Treat others how you want to be treated!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:15 pm 
Offline
Golden Magpie
Golden Magpie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:26 pm
Posts: 16756
Location: Tuross Head, NSW fsr south east coast
Mostly the problem was that the stickfast flea numbers got out of hand and everything you did was a catch-up not a cure.

We are now coming into winter and the flea population will drop dramatically with the colder weather. This will give you the chance to get on top of the fleas by hygeine methods such as you have just done.

If you are just as rigourous next spring and summer with the hygeine procedures you probably find that the numbers of stick fast fleas are not as high and that measures like using one of the mectins will then control them on the chooks.

There is nothing wrong with using a mectin product for control intra and extra (inside and outside) parasites provided you stick to the correct doses. Chook do need to be wormed and de-loused. And..... it is still recommended practice to do a follow up a fortnight later to catch parasites that have hatched since the first dose.

But then leave sufficient time for the body to fully excrete the mectin. Up to 90 days in fact which is when we recommend you dose again.

Mike

_________________
Retired Now - Have moved and can be found sitting on a boat with a bit of string in the water with a fish enticing safety pin at the end of it. Officially a Tuross Head resident.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:33 pm 
Offline
Golden Cockatoo
Golden Cockatoo
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 pm
Posts: 20741
Location: Albany, Western Australia
I also have a stickfast flea probalem all through the summer months. I expect it now! It is brought in by wild birds and as we are on 4 acres I can't eliminate it from the chooks as they free range and pick it up again. I can't spray 4 acres, so I don't try to get rid of them - just to keep the numbers down to reasonable. I also use the mectins as the main defense and dose more often than recommended above. I tend to hit them with a series of 3 doses 13 days appart with Cydectin for Red deer (pour on) and then have a break till the numbers start to build up again and then do the same with an Ivomectin for use in water. I don't manage a three month break between runs of either cydectin or Ivomectin, but as Mike says they fall off in the winter months so they have a long break from the mectins than. Also I dose at the minimum rate needed to deal with them. With both products I use .1ml per kg (as stated on the bottles for the animal it is intended for), whereas several members here have said they use 1ml per kg. So I figure I have some leeway as regards to their livers coping as I dose light. I find they kill all the external paracites at this does, but not all the round worms get killed, so I also worm with Levamisole so they are not getting a residual worm load developing mectin resistance.

I hope that all makes sense and is of some help. I have worked out what to do over several years of infestation and it seems to work for me.

NellyG

_________________
NellyG ............Image............


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:39 pm 
Offline
Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:53 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Perth W.A
Wow thanks for that i'm glad i'm not the only one that is suffering :cry:

I had just about had enough yesterday i was at the end of my teather. as you can imagine

At the end of the day all we can do is try to get rid of them forever but thats about a million to one!! so keeping the numbers down will have to be good enoungh.

Thanks for the help it's muchly appreciated :) :D

_________________
Mother of 2 children, 60 chooks, 5 horses 1 in foal, 2 dogs, 1 cat, 9 gold fish and i can't forget being wife when i have time....... :)
Treat others how you want to be treated!!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: guineafowl and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
©2004-2014 Backyardpoultry.com. Content rights reserved
freestone