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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:04 am 
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Name: Apple Cider Vinegar (Unpasteurized or Organic)
Significant ingredients: Acetic Acid, ‘Mother of Vinegar’ (detritus/sediment)
Apple cider vinegar, or cider vinegar, is made from cider or apple must and is an amber color. Vinegar is essentially oxidised alcohol. The unpasteurized form has the mother of vinegar present, and is sold at a high price as a health product.

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Claims made:
* That ACV will acidify the gut and deworm poultry
* That ACV will acidify the gut and prevent worm build-up
* That it keeps drinking water and containers cleaner
* That it boosts immunity.
* That it is a treatment for oral thrush and promotes urinary tract health.
* That it acidifies the urine and helps reduce kidney stones


SUMMARY

* Will it acidify the gut and deworm poultry and prevent worm build-up? - NO: While increasing acidity may benefit digestion, especially in the lower digestive tract, giving small amounts of ACV in the drinking water is not sufficient to achieve a a difference that will destroy worms. Parts of the avian digestive tract are quite acidic, and worms that survive there have a very high tolerance for acid environments. This means that ACV will have an insufficient effect on worms in either a preventive or treatment sense.

* Will it keep drinking water and containers cleaner? - YES: ACV in the water containers will result in a very dilute acidity. This may help reduce algal and microbial growth. The same effect can be achieved with any cheap vinegar, using chlorinated tap water which already has an algal preventative in it, or by keeping water containers in the shade or in a light-proof container.

* Will it boost immunity? - MINIMAL: There will be very minute amount of vitamins in ACV. In healthy well fed chooks this should not make any difference. In an unwell bird, it would be better to use a known vitamin supplement which would be at an appropriate dosage level.

* Will it help treat oral thrush or promote urinary tract health? - YES: Some positive benefits can be gained by having acetic acid in the drinking water for the treatment of oral thrush, and also for urinary tract health as the urates become more acidic. Acetic Acid (ACV - pasteurised version not specified) can be given at a rate of 15ml/qt in the drinking water for asymptomatic birds with gram negative rods and/or yeast detected in cytology sample from the mouth or cloaca (Ritchie, Harrison & Harrison, 1997).

* Will it acidify the urine and help reduce kidney stones? - POSSIBLY: An article on World Poultry has indicated that acidifying the water can help reduce kidney damage in laying hens. Vinegar isn't particularly mentioned, but other acidifiers were found to be effective. For that thread click Here

Discussion
In commercial pig and poultry enterprises, acids are given to the stock to maintain and promote the "correct" intestinal flora (healthy bacteria) in the lower digestive tract. This promotes better weight gain and feed-conversion ratios. No reputable claims, that we can find, have been made to say that acidifying the lower digestive tract is anti-parasitic. Neither by the people who make these slow-release acids, nor by ACV producers.

These acids that are fed to the commercial poultry and pigs are 'coated' and are designed to be slow-release so that they are not de-activated by neutralizing agents in the small intestine before they reach the lower digestive system. ACV is not coated, nor slow-release, so it's activity has been rendered useless in the gut before it reaches where it is needed. As the food moves through the duodenum, bile produced by the liver and stored in the gall bladder is also added. Bile aids in fat digestion. The products of digestion are absorbed from the small intestine and carried to the liver primarily for re-manufacture into body tissue or to provide energy.

Significant conclusions:
Increased acidity in the drinking water may have some benefit to the very beginning of the digestive tract (crop) and may be beneficial to digestion and the treatment of thrush. However, we cannot find any evidence that giving ACV in tiny amounts in the drinking water will prevent, reduce or treat intestinal worms. Giving ACV in tiny amounts in the drinking water isn't going to achieve increased levels of acid where the parasites reside (due to pancreatic enzymes). Intestinal worms are also very acid tolerant in any case. ACV may help keep the water containers clean, although it is an expensive option for this purpose. It is possible that vinegar in the water can reduce kidney stones in laying hens. ACV is that it is not toxic or harmful - especially when given in the tiny amounts that poultry people generally use - a few teaspoons in a litre. The only harm that could come from its use is if people neglect proper worming of their birds when it is necessary.

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Sources & Links of Interest:
http://en.engormix.com/cap8217acid_targ ... 5-3924.htm
Chickens - digestive system - http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/27_2705.htm
Digestion - http://fsc.fernbank.edu/birding/digestion.htm
PH & Alkilinity - http://www.uri.edu/ce/wq/ww/Publication ... linity.pdf
Evaluating Water Quality - http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1201/
Evaluation of Water Acidification Products - http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/ ... n-products
Jones, T.C. & Hunt, R.D. (1983) Veterinary Pathology. Lea & Febiger. Philadelphia, U.S.A.
Ritchie, Harrison & Harrison (1997) Avian Medicine: Principles and Application. Wingers Publishing Inc. Florida, U.S.A.

Put together with enormous input from and consultation with:
Chookyinoz
Stella
Hobbyfarmfun
Jaffakatie
Huney007

Reputable sources were sought, but were very scarce. To follow the progress of our conclusions you can read the Appendices:
Appendix A - Acidity Discussion
Appendix B - Avian Digestion

Disclaimer
All threads listed in this Index are the opinions of caring forum users. Backyard Poultry takes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information contained within, and if in doubt, always refer your poultry queries and problems to your vet.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:46 am 
Thank you for doing the research and posting this. So much of the available health advice for chickens seems to be based on "Somebody said this would help". I really appreciate someone who spends the time to look into the science.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Oh wow, that conclusion is going to set the fox among the hens ;)

A question - I've personally found that slightly acidifying water makes it easier to drink at various times (related to personal temperamentalities of my own digestive system - it seems to prevent diarrhea that turns up occasionally). I generally add lemon juice but ACV would probably have much the same effect.

Is there any evidence that ACV or other acids could have a similar result in chooks with digestive issues/diarrhea, caused by (for eg) cocci or dehydration?

Not that I've ever used it as such, but I just suddenly wondered ...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:56 pm 
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F-info

Short answer is no - the reason is that in most animals there is a neutralising effect between the stomach and lower intestines. Most trots come because of imflamation of the lower tract where for what ever the reason the food is mal-absorbed or th peristaltic action is incrd to purge the offending substance.

Short answer is no

Sorry to be a soothsayer and insisting the world is round.

Mike

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:22 pm 
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Nope, I pretty much expected that. Not that I expected it to help with diarrhea as such, but wondered if it helped with water "absorption" at a time when the chook might have diarrhea from other sources and not absorbing anything very well (ie operating a little like electrolytes).

Just curious.

I like the concept that it can help with algae prevention in water sources without compromising chook health; my water sources go in the sun in winter to help unfreeze the water more quickly and it can bring on algae. So that's definitely worth a go.

Thanks again all!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:37 am 
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Thrush is a candida species of yeast. Its a normal flora in many parts of the body and is constantly there. It only becomes a problem when the mixture of organisms gets out of balance. Usually due to something else being wrong. In short its an opportunistic infection.

An example is the oral contraceptive pill as it was thirty years ago. It had the effect of changing the pH of the urine and vaginal secretions in some women and the different conditions favoured candida which then grow causing thrush infections.

Since then much work has been done on the formulations of that pill and today that effect is fairly uncommon.

So, what I am saying is that if you have recurrent oral thrush problems its because something else is wrong somewhere else. It does commonly occur due to antibiotic use and the antibiotics kill off the normal bacterial flora and leave the yeast component of the normal flora to flourish and fill the void.

Fixing the root problem is a better idea and sometimes probiotics would be a better option than acetic acid (in what ever form).

Mike

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:38 am 
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I really enjoyed reading this article, you hear so many people say to use ACV & how good it is but to have the facts makes a decision on wether to use it easier. Any chance on doing a similar article on condes crystals (sorry if spelling is off) or is there 1 here somewhere on BYP?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:05 am 
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Here's a list of the alternate treatments that have been reviewed so far:
http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7983954
At the bottom of the first post is a list of the ones that Chicken07 intends to do in future. Why don't you add a post there to suggest yours?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:08 pm 
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One thing that ACV is definitely good for.. It keep the chook drinkers slime / algae free.. and it also prevent the smell as well from the drinkers..

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:38 pm 
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ACV is also very good for heartburn in humans. Add 20ml to a glass of water. Better than any antacid.

J

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Your timing is excellent!! (something organic disagreed today).

(sorry for being offtopic for chook remedies!).

edit: oh YEAH. I thought lemon juice worked but that's soooo much better!! Thanks Jocler ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:11 am 
I'm glad Jocler said that -- it gave me instant relief when I was pregnant.
Well, not relief from pregnancy... :oops:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:48 pm 
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Have been looking for ages for a way to control algae in the water containers. I was just sold copper sulphate but have since found out that it can be quite difficult to dose correctly to avoid fatalities.
Love the idea of Apple Cider Vinegar however can someone tell me how much I would add to a 12 litre water container?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Highly technical answer here - a splosh! :rofl: :rofl: (it doesn't seem to matter that much!)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:36 pm 
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ACV
Is not only good for chickens but also any animal. Also very good for humans


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