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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Can anyone help me? I have a frizzle bantam pullet that has a swollen lump in front of her left eye. It came up about 4-5 weeks ago after she had got over a respiratory illness which included frothy eyes but was treated successfully. When the lump first came up I massage it hoping to dislodge any blockage and kept her on antibiotics and tried flushing her eye - no luck so when the lump was as big as a large marble I took her to the vet. He thought it was a structural problem of the third eyelid like cherry eye in dogs and lanced it - it deflated after a whole lot of clear fluid came out.
However a couple of days later, despite antibiotic eye ointment it was back and growing again. It got lanced a second time and this time milky fluid came out. The lump didn't go away completely and for about a week it remained smaller. But now it has grown back again and has pulled the eyelids so far forward that her eye is not visible. I don't think the vet knows what it is and my knowledge of bird anatomy is very little! I have tried flushing her sinuses by squirting saline into the cavity in the roof of the mouth but to no avail.
I will try to upload images - if they don't appear here they are in the gallery.

Image

Image

Image

Is there any product that can be applied to the eye or into the sinuses that may clear the blockage (if that is what it is). We live in Melbourne so hoping no exotic diseases!
She is otherwise healthy although gets a bit down as the other chooks give her a bit of grief when her eye is this swollen.

edited to display photos.
C'07

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:59 pm 
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Assist Admin
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Madanne to get the pics to display in the thread just the code from the box under the photo needs to be copied and pasted.

If you edit your post above to remove the extra
Code:
[img][/img]
surrounding the links the photos should display in your post. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:40 pm 
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Golden Magpie
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Hi

There is something significantly wrong with that bird. I had a good close look at the photos and frankly I dont see signs of respiratory disease in the bird. Although its hard to be decisive looking at a photo alone.

Quite obviously, I see the eye distortion and it worries me. There is something significantly wrong and I dont think its a blocked sinus as there is only one eye involved. I am not suprised saline washes are not helping.

This one really is a vet job. I am not from Melbourne and I dont know the geography but one vet that does come highly recommended as a specialist avian vet is Dr Colin Walker from the Knox Veterinary Clinic. Alternatively our resident vet on BYP (Meridith aka Stella) works at the Cranbourne Equine Hospital if that is closer to you.

I have concerns that the eye is already lost and the bigger concern is what is causing it.

Mike

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:07 pm 
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Dapper Duck
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Thanks cackles and Mike for your help. I have just checked on the poor girl and it is worse with more swelling building up under the whole area. Up till now the lump has been in front of the eye itself but now I'm worried that there is pressure over the eye itself. I had thought it was due to a blocked tear duct from mucous hardening after her infection a few weeks back and hence only on one side. I don't know about how a bird's tear ducts work but is there a sac to collect tears - could this be what is swelling?
Can a vet clear this easily or will it be quite expensive? She is lovely but I can't justify spending a lot on her especially if it would be a recurrent problem
Thanks for the info on the vets - we are on that side of town so neither are too far from home.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:26 pm 
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Golden Magpie
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I really cant give you a guide on costs - I simply dont know.

I dont want to speculate on what it could be as its just too difficult over the computer. I am concerned about the bird though. I have spoken to Meredith via the phone and although she hasn't seen the photos she is aware of the problem. You could ring her to see if she could squeeze you in either tonight or tomorrow morning.

Unfortunately I dont have the same telephone conduit with Dr walker.

My advice is to take the chook to the vet - If thats a problem then we all understand as its hard to cope with unexpected expenses and we all know times are tough. We also understand what the alternatives are and the decision that entails.

Mike

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:33 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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I have a feeling Dr Walker is not open weekends, but that may have changed now that he has moved and has another vet working with him.
Personally I think he'd be the best to visit - his costs are reasonable. His phone number is 9764 9000

Or you could try Highbury Vet Clinic, 9808 9011. They have two avian vets too, but charges are a bit higher.

I'm happy to see her too, I am fully booked tomorrow but could probably squeeze you in some time mid-morning. My work number is 9799 1433. Call after 8am tomorrow. Bear in mind, I'm NOT a bird specialist, the others have heaps more experience than me. I may not be able to do a great deal. ( Have to see it really to be sure).
I would look after you though cost-wise.
And I have a small suspicion that the eye may be ok under all that swelling.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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I looked at Ginger last Saturday.
Madanne's husband had lanced it the night before to relieve her and it had gone down considerably.
( Oh and PS., I don't think Anne is mad at all :D )
The swelling is actually of the third eyelid itself, with the other lids becoming swollen due to pressure.
The eye is absolutely fine underneath.
My feeling is that something is blocking the tears produced by the third eyelid from flowing out onto the eye.
This blockage is likely a result of the previous respiratory infection that she had and the inflammation caused by it.
As soon as the hole produced from lancing it closes over, the eyelid fills up with fluid again.
Because the third eyelid produces 70-80% of the eye's tears which protect the eye, and because it acts like a windscreen wiper, it would be very detrimental to just remove it.
Ginger is comfortable for some time until it swells up again.
I have spoken to a veterinary opthalmologist friend of mine who agrees from my description that this is most likely the problem.
He has agreed to look at Ginger for me on Friday to give his verdict.
He has suggested a surgical procedure where the third eyelid is given a permanent drainage hole in lieu of the blocked one.
For those interested he is doing this at no charge as an educational session for me. ( It helps to have friends in high places). :biggrin:
I shall give him a good bottle of red for doing us a good deed. And of course I will post his ideas once he has seen Ginger.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:20 am 
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Champion Bird
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Go professional colleagues and educational processes! :thumbs: I hope you enjoy creating many permanent drainage holes in the future Stella. And it sounds like a very good prognosis for Ginger.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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Well Ginger came back to the clinic this afternoon and my vet opthalmologist friend examined her and we still agreed on the reason and cause for the swollen eyelid. The eyelid was very swollen again.

The decision was made to anesthetise Ginger and remove a large circle of the inner third eyelid tissue closest to the eye. The idea is to make a window (it's called marsupialising), as big as possible, so that when it heals its never comes close enough together to close back over. This way there will always be a hole for the tears to drain out.

Well, I did that. Actually the lining of the cyst was surprisingly thick and easy to dissect. As soon as it was pierced a whole lot of fluid poured out.
Anyways, as I pulled the lid back out a bit to see if I'd made a big enough hole, way down deep toward the nostril , I could see a couple of yellow bits that looked like pus. I grasped them with fine forceps and, after a fair bit of teasing, out popped a pea-sized glob of bright yellow rubbery pus.
This is obviously what caused the blockage in the first place.
So hopefully Ginger's eye will be fixed. She will be a bit swollen from the handling for a few days and will need to continue on antibiotic ointment in the eye for a week.
I'm hoping 'notso' madanne will be able to post back with good news in a fortnight.

PS - It was fun too. :biggrin:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:23 pm 
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Golden Magpie
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Oh Meredith well done !!!

Very impressed, and although I understand this was a training execise it really good to see practitioners going back to basics and honing skills.

Well done

Mike

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:41 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Awesome stella!

Thanks for the detailed description and report. I bet you, and your expert friend felt pretty good about the whole experience and you both earned a good bottle of red. Happy days Ginger!

I must say.... this whole rubbery puss thing that chooks have going seems like an evolutionary backwards step!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:27 pm 
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Golden Cockatoo
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Well done Stella! I hope she makes a full recovery. :thumbs:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:24 am 
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Dapper Duck
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Thankyou everyone for your interest and help with Ginger. A huge thankyou to Meredith for her interest, initiative and wonderful skill. Ginger is recovering well and settled down for the night with a full crop so I think she is quite happy :biggrin:
Here she is looking ever so much better already:
Image
Tonight she's staying inside in our "chook hospital" made from a recycling crate and an open sided cage lowered over the top! I will certainly post again in a week or so with an update of her progress which I think will be very positive :)
We got chooks last May & since then I have gone a bit chook mad (hence the name!) - I love them! Once again thankyou all so much :thanks:
Anne

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:31 am 
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what a wonderful ending! :bounce: she looks great and i bet feels sooo much better you guys are amazing :woot: wish you were here in tassie! what a sweet chookie anne she is very lucky to have you as her mum keep up the great work cheers melli :claps:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Hatchling
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Hi there, I have a lovely blue wyandotte Girl who's about 18mths old. She has a lump in front of her eye about the size of a lima bean and I was wondering if she could have a similar problem to Ginger? BB had the lump when I bought her and if it is getting bigger, then its growing very very slowly. Her eye is clear, but im worried that she might need a vet trip to drain it?

Cheers, Tam.


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