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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:56 pm
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I have an isa brown who has been off the lay for a long time (and from when she was only about 1 year old) - I posted about her condition in this forum ("squishy abdomen"). A couple of weeks ago she'd suddenly taken a turn for the worse and was looking very sick indeed - hunched over, tail down, comb crumpled over, eyes closed, hardly moving. I was preparing myself for the worst but then thought I'd try the organic worming concoction of a garlic/chili/turmeric milk mash for a couple of days (I hadn't noticed any difference after using an off the shelf worm treatment), followed by a random fossick through the pantry for any other potent herbs, and ended up throwing in a handful of fenugreek seeds into the mix as well. Well the whole flock did some very big, fibrous and fenugreek-stinking poos and it seems to have been quite a cleanser, everyone's looking good, another isa brown who hadn't been laying for a while is back on the job, and the sick girl looks incredibly good! She's still not laying but she's perked right up and got her colour and character back. Has anyone else heard of fenugreek having this effect or is it more likely down to the worming mash (or coincidence)?


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 109
Location: Sale, Victoria.
Wow sounds fantastic!
Great to hear that your chooks are doing well

I know that giving chooks a worming mash can help boost there immune system, unsure what it exactly comes down to tho.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Golden Phoenix
Golden Phoenix

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 10107
Location: Tarago, near Goulburn
Worming mashes generally contain a lot of garlic; overall health improvements tend to be attributed to it.

However, I do remember a discussion about fenugreek somewhere else in here and I think there is actually some solid scientific evidence for health improvements in particular areas when using it. Chicken07 hasn't covered it in her herbal remedies thread here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7983954 - yet :) - but I'll have a little look around.

OK, I've done a bit of extremely basic research and there does seem to be some evidence that fenugreek has something to do with appetite and improvement of weight when fed to meat birds. Here's some useful information about fenugreek itself from an article:

Quote:
Fenugreek (Trigonella Foenum-Graecum L.), like other legumes, is a good source of dietary protein (approximately 20-30%) for consumption by human and animals, the fatty acids from 5-10% which are predominantly linoleic, linolenic, oleic and palmatic acids. It had 45-65% total carbohydrates with 15% of galactomannan (a soluble fiber) (Schryver, 2002). Fenugreek leaves and seeds have been used extensively to prepare extracts and powders for medicinal uses (Basch et al., 2003). It’s reported to have anti-diabetic, anti-fertility, anti cancer, anti-microbial, antiparasitic, hypo-cholesterolaemic effects (Al-Habori and Roman, 2002). Also it contains many minerals and vitamins (Michael and Kumawat, 2003)


Rabia J. Abbas. Effect of Using Fenugreek, Parsley and Sweet Basil Seeds as Feed Additives on the Performance of Broiler Chickens. International Journal of Poultry Science 9 (3): 278-282, 2010. Fulltext available at http://free-journal.umm.ac.id/files/fil ... s%20as.pdf.

Note that the listing above does not mean fenugreek has those proven properties; just that they've been used for those purposes.

What a lot of the reading suggests to me is that fenugreek is easily digested and may provide nutrients where others are less easily absorbed; so may help boost unwell chooks.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:37 am 
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Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:56 pm
Posts: 25
That's really interesting - thanks very much.
I wonder if it's gentle enough on the system to be fed to them regularly? I might incorporate it into a monthly worming mash.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:23 am 
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Golden Phoenix
Golden Phoenix

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 10107
Location: Tarago, near Goulburn
Nothing I read suggested it was toxic in ordinary food levels, and it's evidently not toxic to poultry in fairly normal doses.

There WAS some evidence that an extract of fenugreek fed to growing chicks caused issues - I'll try to find that link again but it was very technical and I didn't quite understand what was going on.

However, in a monthly mash certainly won't harm. It may or may do some good - I can't see enough evidence one way or another. I don't think it's much good against worms, but it may help support the actions of other substances by making the whole thing easier to digest; that might be its useful property.

I would tentatively suggest that fenugreek might be useful, in small doses, fed to chooks that are unwell and not eating a lot. It MAY help them get more out of what food they're eating.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:15 pm 
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Gallant Game
Gallant Game
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 409
Location: brisbane south
Here is a thought.

When we have a cold we take -Triple strength vit c, garlic, horseradish, marshmallow and fenugreek tablets. They releive cold symptoms.
Do you think we could give some of a tablet to the chooks when they seem to be miserable with a cold type disorder.

Any info about whether the marshmallow or harseradish would be harmfull would be good. The vit c and garlic would boost the immune and if the fenugreek stimulates apetite (which is always low when the birds are sick) if the other two properties were not dangerous it may be a thought.

Has anyone tried anything like this before. Or does anyone have any relevant information/advice.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Proud Rooster
Proud Rooster

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:16 pm
Posts: 323
The only thing I've ever heard it used for is boosting milk supply I women!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:38 am 
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Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:50 pm
Posts: 13
Fenugreek is an expectorant, can pull mucous out of the system, I used to get recurring chest infections and a naturopath prescribed large doses of powdered fenugreek capsules and after a few times taking it I have literally not had another chest infection for about 8 years (was a problem most of my life before this)

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A Menagerie Farm... I'll go biggest to smallest :) 2 Milking cows, 2 Calves, 9 Pigs, 7 Sheep, 2 Labradors, 1 Cat, 16 chooks (Barnevelders, Buff Sussex, Silver sussex & Light sussex) 6 Guinea Fowl, thats today anyway :D ...and a hubby and 2 kids


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Ol' Bustard
Ol' Bustard

Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:53 pm
Posts: 1159
Location: MIRBOO in Gippsland, VICTORIA
I give my birds a blend of (all powdered) Ginger, Fenugreek, Tumeric, Aniseed and Mustard). I mix equal quantities of the herbs/spice together with some wholemeal flour to suspend the spices and add about 1/2-3/4 teaspoon of that blend to their morning mash. They love it and glow with health. My young stock get it from the moment they're off chick starter right through their laying lives. My hens and pullets thrive on it regardless of the weather conditions.

The mixture is a home made mock-up of the ingredients in the British product "Poultry Spice" made by the Battles Group. My parents used this on their flock of Light Sussex layers in the UK just after WWII and brought the habit to OZ when they emigrated.

I've added Mustard to the mix here after reading that it also does great things for the birds. I've only added Mustard recently so I have no conclusive results yet to speak of. It does look promising though...

For anyone wanting to do this themselves, I buy the spice listed above from Ebay as the prices for Kilo sized lots are very inexpensive.

Cheers all,

Linz :)

_________________
____ __ _______ _ _ _ ______ _ ________ _ _ _ _____

[i]A lot of Andalusians. Anconas in Standard and Bantam PB Black Leghorns in Standard
and Bantam, Derbyshire Redcaps, Light Sussex Bantams.
[/i]
____ __ _______ _ _ _ ______ _ ________ _ _ _ _____


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:06 pm 
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Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:58 am
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Sounds great! Do you have to worry about the flavour of the spices going into the eggs??


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Gallant Game
Gallant Game

Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 6:00 pm
Posts: 436
Location: Cardiff, Newcastle, NSW
Hi Linz, do you give it to them every day or how often. Thanking you Ron.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Ol' Bustard
Ol' Bustard

Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:53 pm
Posts: 1159
Location: MIRBOO in Gippsland, VICTORIA
With my birds, and I can't speak for anyone else's, I don't get anything but egg flavour from our eggs. I think the secret is, don't overdo it.

The amounts I give the birds is based around the dose recommended by "Poultry Spice" which is a 1/2 teaspoon for ten birds.

I give this every day in my warm mash which consists of cooked or shot/soaked wheat, soaked cracked maize, soaked black sunflower seeds, soaked lucerne meal (in molasses water), meal meat/bandsaw dust etc. We've run this feeding regimen for about three years with some changes as it's developed thanks to a thread on BYP originating back to 2009 or so.

I have to say that, up until now, we have avoided the illnesses that we see in other birds, certainly no colds or upper respiratory problems at all. My birds are robust and healthy and eat like horses.

One thing I have observed is the speed with which my birds refeather after moulting, they look like new after 3-4 weeks and they don't go off their tucker. Poultry Spice claims to speed birds through a moult and my birds glide through it easily. I have no idea what they'd be like without my spice mix as they're never without it.

Hope this helps,

Linz :)

_________________
____ __ _______ _ _ _ ______ _ ________ _ _ _ _____

[i]A lot of Andalusians. Anconas in Standard and Bantam PB Black Leghorns in Standard
and Bantam, Derbyshire Redcaps, Light Sussex Bantams.
[/i]
____ __ _______ _ _ _ ______ _ ________ _ _ _ _____


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Gallant Game
Gallant Game

Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 6:00 pm
Posts: 436
Location: Cardiff, Newcastle, NSW
Hi again Linz, another question for you, have you got a favorite ebay store you shop with?
Thanks again Ron.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:43 am 
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Ol' Bustard
Ol' Bustard

Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:53 pm
Posts: 1159
Location: MIRBOO in Gippsland, VICTORIA
I've dealt with a few but the seller I am buying from now is Spice Arena (the seller is rosa_herbs_spices).

To make it easy, I contact them through Ebay, give my order and they send me a PayPal invoice for the lot including postage. I would recommend them to you.

I hope this helps,

Linz :)

_________________
____ __ _______ _ _ _ ______ _ ________ _ _ _ _____

[i]A lot of Andalusians. Anconas in Standard and Bantam PB Black Leghorns in Standard
and Bantam, Derbyshire Redcaps, Light Sussex Bantams.
[/i]
____ __ _______ _ _ _ ______ _ ________ _ _ _ _____


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:21 am 
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Gallant Game
Gallant Game

Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 6:00 pm
Posts: 436
Location: Cardiff, Newcastle, NSW
Linz wrote:
I've dealt with a few but the seller I am buying from now is Spice Arena (the seller is rosa_herbs_spices).

To make it easy, I contact them through Ebay, give my order and they send me a PayPal invoice for the lot including postage. I would recommend them to you.

I hope this helps,

Linz :)
Thanks Linz that a help. Cheers Ron.


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