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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:51 pm 
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Showy Hen
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Hi forum, I know there is probably a thread on this already, Ive had a few calls last week regarding using cattle pour on, on poultry.
Mainly for the newer poultry keepers, in Aus we dont have a "mectin" based product available thats been cleared for use on poultry, I know UK and NZ does but here we use the cattle based products "off label", active ingredient in Cydectin is moxidectin, and Eprinex, Ivermec the active ingredient is Ivermectin. It's generally accepted that a **14 day** withholding period applies for eggs or meat. Just be aware that different brands have higher or lower concentrations and differing application rates but generally its 0.1 ml per kilo of body weight (1 drop), also it can be ingested, mixed through feed or water
So, if we having to miss out on eggs for 2 weeks why use it?
The biggest plus is, used correctly it works and is very efficient in controlling blood sucking parasites, lice, mites, scaley leg etc.
Although it only controls roundworm internally, long term use (every 3 months) has shown deposits are left in feathers as they grow so can make your birds resistant to feather mite too.

Can anyone add to this thread please, I know some ppl are diluting these products too, so any dilution rates for different brands etc or anything relevant?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:43 pm 
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Gallant Game
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I have been meaning to post a "mectin" question so this is a great opportunity.

I currently use moxidectin plus to worm my chooks. I dose them orally with a syringe (my vet taught me how put it far enough back to miss the wind pipe). I have more eggs than I know what to do with so it really doesn't bother me to miss out on a few. I also time it so that one dose happens when most of the girls are taking a winter break and there are no eggs anyway.

Back to the question...

Some time ago I remember reading a thread here about "mectins" and, if I recall correctly, someone said that the active ingredient in Revolution flea drops was moxidectin. I use this for my cat and so I had it in the back of my mind that, if need be, kitty could share some with the chooks. I recently bought a new packet of these flea drops and noticed that the active ingredient is selamectin. Did Pfizer change it or am I imagining the whole thread where I read about it? Can selamectin be used the same way as moxidectin on the chooks?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:52 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Sonja wrote:
I recently bought a new packet of these flea drops and noticed that the active ingredient is selamectin. Did Pfizer change it or am I imagining the whole thread where I read about it? Can selamectin be used the same way as moxidectin on the chooks?


It was always Selamectin.

Selamectin and Ivermectin spot-on's from what I have read work quicker than Moxidectin for control of red mite.

Selamectin Dose Rate Linky-link

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I observe in fascination a worm move by peristaltic action through the freshly turned earth as I plant out my chilies. Grasping the Annelid I toss it to the waiting pack of beady-eyed vultures and watch the ensuing mayhem while laughing like a chook!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:42 pm 
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Champion Bird
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I am no expert but from what i have learned from various discussion threads on this forum there is one key thing to note.

Pour ons are suspended in an oil based carrier and are designed to be absorbed in the fatty layer under the skin. Birds apparently lack the layer of fatty tissue that pour ons rely on for dispersal into the bloodstream. Being oil based it doesn't mix in water very well and one bird can get a massive dose while another gets nothing. The fact that it is such a small dose also makes it hard to disperse it well in a portion of feed and obviously adding water to make a mash wont help.

The oral or injectable versions (water soluble) are recommended to be added to the drinking water as the most efficient way to administer to a flock from what i have learned. Hopefully DannyB or someone else with expert knowledge may comment.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:51 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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Thank you DottenSilk I was trying to find the reference to this myself. I also read that the 'mectins' are not effective as a pour/spot on due to the birds having no layer of fat to absorb it..

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:55 pm 
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Assist Admin
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Here is the link to the discussion on spot ons viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8032193&p=755877#p755877

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:22 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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I've always used the 'spot ons' until I read the above mentioned thread. Moxi Plus was not an affordable option for the number of birds i wished to treat and most cattle products are only available in large quantities, and have a short shelf life. I used Equest Plus Tape (a horse product) moxidectin 20 mg/ml, praziquantel 125mg[ml $23.00 (11.8 g tube) We worked out the dilution to be 5g/10lt water (given over 24 hours) This is designed to be put directly on the horses tongue. I found that I had to shake it hard in hot water to disperse the paste before adding the rest of the water - and sugar, as it is really bitter (moxi is in any form) - hoping that the hot water treatment didn't do any damage to the product. Chooks drank OK as they were thirsty.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:46 pm 
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Just so you know - moxidectin was derived from a fungi found on a tree on golf course in suburban Melbourne.

Just a pity Australia Day has come and gone.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:49 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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No published evidence of Spot-on application not working in birds has ever been forthcoming.

Yet there exists a spot-on Ivermectin product for birds that is available for purchase in Australia. It is Avimec and it is available from Vetafarm stockists.

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I observe in fascination a worm move by peristaltic action through the freshly turned earth as I plant out my chilies. Grasping the Annelid I toss it to the waiting pack of beady-eyed vultures and watch the ensuing mayhem while laughing like a chook!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:50 pm 
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Gallant Game
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Thanks for the selamectin link Milo, it is not the one I'm thinking of... it is even better. I've got so much bouncing around in my head that I must have overlooked the "similar" part and just filed it away under moxidectin.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:58 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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Milo wrote:
No published evidence of Spot-on application not working in birds has ever been forthcoming.


Agreed... It works for me.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:26 pm 
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Champion Bird
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I too have used a spot on and must admit it seems to be effective to some degree, particularly for mites. I just remembered reading lots of threads myself trying to get an answer to the same question and remembered these key points from what i read. I plan to switch to moxitdectin plus next time round (in the water) because i have some doubts as to whether the spot on is doing the full job on worms.

Personally i would prefer a spot on in terms of administering the dose but if the birds seem to do better on the moxi, i will stick to it.

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There's silk in my name but dottes are my game. Amateur breeder of standard blue laced red wyandottes.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:19 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Spot ons, I have found, do work, but must be applied every 3 months max to be effective. I apply to the combs of my birds and have nearly eliminated scaly leg. The Old mongrel rooster had it bad on both legs as well as some of the older hens, it is now nearly completely gone. Lice are a thing of the past. It does not do a lot for fleas however.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:02 am 
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Showy Hen
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"No published evidence of Spot-on application not working in birds has ever been forthcoming"

Works well and its active for the life cycle of lice/mites, no re-infestation a week later, it has definitely found a place in our maintenance program. I find it more effective than powders and beats dunking 50-60 birds in a bucket every few months/weeks.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:43 pm 
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Junior Champion Bird
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Some information relevant to withholding periods

Attachment:
Table 10.JPG
Table 10.JPG [ 123.74 KiB | Viewed 3863 times ]


Goetting, V., Lee, K. A., Tell, L. A. Pharmacokinetics of veterinary drugs in laying hens and residues in eggs: a review of the literature. J. vet. Pharmacol. Therap. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2885.2011.01287.x.

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Cheers, Milo.
I observe in fascination a worm move by peristaltic action through the freshly turned earth as I plant out my chilies. Grasping the Annelid I toss it to the waiting pack of beady-eyed vultures and watch the ensuing mayhem while laughing like a chook!


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