Backyard Poultry Forum • View topic - Limping Lethargic ISA

Backyard Poultry Forum

Chickens, waterfowl & all poultry - home of exhibition & backyard poultry in Australia & New Zealand
Login with a social network:
It is currently Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:26 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Limping Lethargic ISA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:12 am 
Offline
Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:14 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Dubbo NSW
Bubbles (an ISA) who is about 18 months old who started limping and now appears lethargic, not her usual bright personality. In fact she wasn't even off her roost this morning.
She appears to be eating but very little & has lime to dark green runny poo.
Now she was sold as a vaccinated pullet but after the dubious Dr Google search, the results are reasonably narrowed.
Could this be one of the dreaded downfalls of the ISA breed or??

We do get wild birds in every time we open the coupe, native pigeons, sparrows and the like.

Help and advice appreciated
Cheers
Gavin




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:18 am 
Offline
Wise Wyandotte
Wise Wyandotte

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 4234
Location: Plainland, SEQ
We will need more information to try and help you with this one. It sounds very much like the typical laying disorder problems ISAs are prone to, but filling in THIS CHECKLIST could help us to exclude other possible issues.
It would be helpful if you could also add a little video of her walking/limping or at least some photos.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:43 pm 
Offline
Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:14 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Dubbo NSW
Age: 18months
Breed: ISA Brown
Sex: Hen

Your Location- country, state (different areas/climates have different problems)
ANSWER: Dubbo NSW

What is wrong? What symptoms have you noted? - As much detail as possible please.
ANSWER: started a slight limp 1-2 days ago, now right leg rarely touches the ground, seems very lethargic, was still on the roost this morning, has green poo, varing from lime green to dark green. She doesn't seem to be eating as much as normal

What are you feeding? - Please list everything you're feeding to your birds, including type of basic feed, free ranging, scraps, extras, etc. If possible give approximate percentages.
ANSWER: Pullet layer pellets, occasional scratch mix thrown out when free ranging. Free range most afternoons and 3 days a week. Kitchen scraps, ie what vege scraps are left over from making dinner etc.


Full droppings description.- colour, consistency, frequency, offensive smell.
ANSWER: Lime green, with opaque splotches, runny, frequency? have observed fresh this morning below perch and observed her poo when let out.

Respiratory Changes?- eg. breathing sounds, discharge, laboured breathing, facial swelling
ANSWER: Unsure, this morning observed a slight labored breathing almost like when heat effected

Digestive Changes?- eg. eating, drinking, crop filling & emptying
ANSWER: besides noticed eating less, unsure of others.

Condition Changes?- eg. Weight, comb/wattle colour, skin, feathering
ANSWER: hadnt noticed changes, will have to take a closer look this afternoon.

Behavioural Changes?- inc. socialising, laying, crowing, broodiness
ANSWER: Very lethergic, she normaly has lots of personality, runs when see's me, seemed content to almost sit in one place with an occasional hop here and there.

Agility Changes? - eg. any lameness, favouring, energy levels
ANSWER: limping on one leg, the right leg has almost been lifted up to the body and only placed down gingerly when stopped.

Describe your usual worming routine and products. [If none, say so and skip the next 3 worming questions.] Do you have a cycle that you use eg. every 3 months, or every six months?
ANSWER: Um Lax, havent wormed in about 6 months

1. When was the bird last wormed??- approximate date.
ANSWER: Approx 6 months ago

2. What product was used to worm the bird, and how was it given? ? eg. in the drinking water, on the skin, by injection?
ANSWER: Will have to check when home this afternoon, but administered through drinking water

3. Was a follow up dose given? (eg. 10-14 days later)
ANSWER: yes

Any other recent medications?- antibiotics, coccidiosis meds, herbal remedies, etc
ANSWER: No

Other changes? – additions to the flock, diet, housing, extreme weather
ANSWER: Wife gave them some cream with their scraps 2 days ago

Photos? – any relevant photos are very helpful
INSERT HERE: Will need to get others when home later tonight or tomorrow morning
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:47 pm 
Offline
Wise Wyandotte
Wise Wyandotte

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 4234
Location: Plainland, SEQ
The green poop would be the result of eating next to nothing. It's basically bail, as she doesn't get much into her system. She seems to be in severe pain/distress.
There are a few possibilities, I'll the start with what I think is most likely:

1. A painful leg injury or inflammation of part of the leg/foot
Given that she is only limping on the right leg, s it possible that she has hurt her leg or that she has a severe infection in her footpad or somewhere in her leg? Please gently check this. First, have a thorough look at the right leg. Compare to the left and look for an redness, swelling, scabs, feeling hot, raised scales, etc. Also check the footpad underneath, the toes and toenails and the web between the toes. Sometimes little stones can get caught between the web and the toe, especially if the bird also has an infected and swollen footpad (bumble foot). This can be quite painful. If possible, show us photos of the legs and feet and the footpads. Also show comparisons to the healthy leg if you can.
Once you checked the feet and the legs in general, have a look at the joints. An avian vet once told me that in case of a leg injury, in his experience, the less a bird puts his foot on the ground, the higher the injury usually is in the leg. I don't know whether that's true, but gently check from the hip joint downwards. Check for any soreness and/or swelling in the joint. Where the joints are visible also check for any redness. Again, compare with the healthy leg. If your bird permits and if the pain is not too severe, check, whether the limp leg can be moved freely to the same extent as the healthy one.

2. Egg laying disorder
I think the limpness on just one leg, rather than not being able to walk properly altoghether doesn't really point towards an egg laying disorder. But I'd think it could still be a possibility, especially as she is an ISA and as she seems to be in severe pain. Do you know when she laid an egg the last time? Is her abdomen swollen at all? Did you observe her straining and attempting to lay an egg? Is she very thin? Feel her keelbone, it should be nicely covered with muscle tissue on both sides. It shouldn't feel like the back of a knife. The fact that she is panting, even when it is not hot outside could be due to her having a fever that could be related to any form of severe infection. It could also be the result of breathing difficulties, due to pressure on her respiratory system due to some internal swelling or growth or a build up of fluid in her abdomen.

3. Worms
Internal parasites can lead to limpness, discomfort and eventually to severe illness. I think it is less likely, as she only seems to limp on one leg, but it's still a possibility. So, after you checked (and where necessary treated) for other problems, consider worming her with a complete wormer, such as Avitrol plus, Moxidectin plus or Worm out. All three of them treat form intestinal worms AND tapeworm. Other products usually only treat intestinal worms. You should worm your other birds as well. Make it a routine to worm them every 3 months. Some people do it at the change of the season (1.March, 1. June, 1. September, 1. December).

4. Other diseases:
If you excluded the other options, I would consider taking her to an avian vet if you budget allows for that to get her checked. You might need to see a vet as well if on of the first options seem to be the reason for her being so unwell.

In general with ISAs, it's a good idea to exclusively feed good quality layer pellets. This hybrid was bred to produce as many large eggs as possible and they therefore need food that is very dense in all the nutrients that are required to perform. Special good quality layer pellets are designed to provide all these nutrients in the right amount. Any extras like scraps or scratch mix will dilute that formula and therefore can lead to severe problems down the track.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:46 pm 
Offline
Dapper Duck
Dapper Duck
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:14 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Dubbo NSW
Well after some more investigations and photo evidence gathering yesterday afternoon before I needed to run back to work I think I may have found the reason for the limp. My daughter told me that one of the youngest boys got a little rough with bubbles. Apparently they have started to play "Vet" :thunder this practice has now been stopped.

Anyway returning home, I noticed her appetite had pretty much returned to normal, regarding the feed, its not unusual for Bubbles to pick out the layer pellets out of the scratch mix and leave most else besides the corn & return to the feeder with the layer pellets in it. She prefers the layer pellets over most things. Her colour seems perfectly normal for her with no paleness etc.

1. I looked over her legs and couldn't see any redness, swelling was hard to tell, movement was a little stiff but she didn't really complain during inspection and leg movements

Image
the injured/limping leg is the non banded leg.

Image
A short video of her limping, the panting is due to the afternoon heat.


2. Last egg was two days ago, about the day the boys rough housed her apparently :(
The abdomen didn't appear swollen and was making no signs of attempting to lay and egg. She has lost some weight the Keelbone was a little prominent.

3. worming will recommence when I get home this afternoon, I got home from work after midnight last night and didnt have time with school runs etc this morning after the late night.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:36 pm 
Offline
Wise Wyandotte
Wise Wyandotte

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 4234
Location: Plainland, SEQ
Thanks for the update, the photo and the video. The kids might have hurt her leg and hopefully she'll recover fully from whatever they did. It's a good sign that she got her appetite back. Did her limp improve at all, is it the same or is it still worsening?

If she is in a lot of pain, you could give her a pain killer (meloxicam would be the drug of choice). I'd also confine her to a smallish area to give her a chance her rest her injured leg. If the leg is improving or at least not getting worse, I wouldn't put her in a really small cage. I think it might be better if she can exercise her leg if she wishes but she shouldn't have to walk longer distances for feed and water. If she wants to perch, I'd give her a very low perch, just above from the ground to avoid too much strain on the injured leg when she hops down.
If the leg is worsening or not improving at all she might need to see a vet to make sure that there is no permanent damage to the bones or tendons that will give her permanent pain.
If the leg is slowly getting better, it is likely that she just has a sprain. You could try rubbing the leg with some Voltaren emulgel. There is another drug that I like to use, but I don't know whether you can get it in an ordinary pharmacy. I know you can order it online. It is called Traumeel. You can get it as a creme for topic treatment or as tablets to swallow. I've found it to be quite helpful with sprains.

I don't think she has a problem with her reproductive tract at all. She probably just stopped laying because she was stressed and is in pain. She'll bounce back once her leg has healed.
The only other relevant things I'm noticing on the pictures is that there is a toe nail missing on the limp leg, but I guess that has happened a while ago. At least there is no sign of a fresh injury/infection on that foot.
However, there is a small scab on the other foot. It looks like a small injury that has scabbed over, but it doesn't look infected at the moment. These injuries are exactly what could eventually end up as bumble foot if infection sets in. Just watch it to make sure it doesn't worsen. Make sure that the birds have good, wide perches that don't give them splinters. Also, make sure that they have soft bedding in their coop and that their feet stay clean.

It's good that she prefers the layer pellets. What a clever chicken! Think about only feeding layer pellets altogether if you have more ISAs.

Try to stick to a good worming routine, once you found a good wormer and resumed treatment. It's a good idea to change the wormer to another with a different active ingredient once or better twice a year to avoid the worms getting resistant to one product.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
©2004-2014 Backyardpoultry.com. Content rights reserved
freestone