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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:12 am 
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Hatchling
Hatchling

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:47 am
Posts: 9
Age: 19 weeks
Breed: Ameraucana
Sex: Rooster

Your Location- country, state (different areas/climates have different problems)
ANSWER: Montana,USA (note: Vet said we don't have Mareks in our area. Too cold winter)

What is wrong? What symptoms have you noted? - As much detail as possible please.
ANSWER: 10 days ago when we woke up my rooster couldn't stand. He couldn't even sit up properly. I brought him inside in a pen and fed him epsom salt in the water once a day for two days and he fully recovered. I had a theory that he had botulism because I discovered the dried mill worms I had given him the night before had gone rancid. He has been fine since then until 2 days ago. Exact same symptoms as before. There's no more rancid treats that he would be getting. I brought him back inside and fed him ensure protein drinks and water and he is 60% better but still shaky on his feet 48 hours later.

What are you feeding? - Please list everything you're feeding to your birds, including type of basic feed, free ranging, scraps, extras, etc. If possible give approximate percentages.
ANSWER: Manna Pro Layer Crumbles (no restrictions), purina chicken scratch as a treat, veggie and fruit scraps, free range.


Full droppings description.- colour, consistency, frequency, offensive smell.
ANSWER: Normal sometimes, watery green other times

Respiratory Changes?- eg. breathing sounds, discharge, laboured breathing, facial swelling
ANSWER: labored

Digestive Changes?- eg. eating, drinking, crop filling & emptying
ANSWER: doesn't eat or drink unless forced at first. Now eating and drinking again after small recovery

Condition Changes?- eg. Weight, comb/wattle colour, skin, feathering
ANSWER: Vet said he seemed to have very low bulk to his chest. He wondered if maybe he wasn't processing proteins and was wasting. (Liver failure). He suggested feeding him ensure drinks is another way of getting him protein. But this kind of diet is not something I can keep up for years every day and I'm wondering if anyone has any other theories or if I need to just cull him? The vet didn't really get to spend a lot of time with him under the circumstances. 10 days ago was the same night that my dog died of cancer and I took them both in at 2 AM to the ER thinking there was a connection between them both failing. It turned out as it was a coincidence and we were so focused on the death of the dog that he didn't spend A huge amount of time with the rooster other than to notice that he seemed like he was wasting.

Behavioural Changes?- inc. socialising, laying, crowing, broodiness
ANSWER: still crows even when can't stand.

Agility Changes? - eg. any lameness, favouring, energy levels
ANSWER: legs collapse under him and he rocks to one side

Describe your usual worming routine and products. [If none, say so and skip the next 3 worming questions.] Do you have a cycle that you use eg. every 3 months, or every six months?
ANSWER: was going to be fall/spring

1. When was the bird last wormed??- approximate date.
ANSWER:never. Was not outside till May.

2. What product was used to worm the bird, and how was it given? ? eg. in the drinking water, on the skin, by injection?
ANSWER:

3. Was a follow up dose given? (eg. 10-14 days later)
ANSWER:

Any other recent medications?- antibiotics, coccidiosis meds, herbal remedies, etc
ANSWER: no

Other changes? – additions to the flock, diet, housing, extreme weather
ANSWER: gotvery warm outside this last week but was not hot the first time this happened. And Montana is a dry heat. Other 12 hens/pullets having no issues and laying just fine.

Photos? – any relevant photos are very helpful
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:33 am 
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Old Mother Goose
Old Mother Goose
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:15 pm
Posts: 6426
Location: ACT area
Hi atollerson, your poor boy looks pretty sick. It is not a classic Mareks pose but I am surprised by the vets advice that you don't have Mareks in your area. It is transmitted by feather dander and can be carried by wild/ migratory birds.
The fact that this has recurred does suggest that there is something systemic causing this. Sometimes I see similar to this in young birds my flock, I doubt that he will improve. If it is liver failure a protein overload will not help long term.
In this situation my first response is to worm them as a worm burden can cause lameness and loss of condition (but it rarely helps).
You can boost protein with raw mince or good quality tinned cat food (not dog food -too salty) but unless he improves significantly and quickly, be prepared to euthanize him.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Hatchling
Hatchling

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:47 am
Posts: 9
Thanks for your advice hun. I'm wondering if the vet said that because the herpes virus doesn't survive here well because of our cold winter? Or just lack of occurrence from his experience?
But as Sophus has now improved fully a second time After 3 days of rest ( even mating with the hens) it seems like rest from physical Stress and simple proteins from the ensure drinks points towards the same conclusion. I think you are right and this is just going to keep happening as long as his liver can't process crude protein in regular feed. It's so hard to lose a sweet rooster you've hand fed since 1 week old who coos and leans into you for pets and scratches. Ugh! Sad sad lady here :(


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 186
Location: Brissie West
Hi atollerson,

I am no medical expert, but I noticed that at 19 weeks your boy is still young and growing. Sometimes they can grow faster than their body is able to cope with, but with good quality feed, vitamins and rest they will recover. I wonder if restricting his diet to high protein feed only (no scraps) and giving bird vitamins in the water for a while is worth a try and might tide him over a growth spurt.

Roosters are special - I hope the problem resolves for you soon!

M


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:36 pm 
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Gallant Game
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Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 6:47 pm
Posts: 484
Location: East Gippsland
There is a special feed for meat birds. 20% Protein or so. Lots of vitamins and stuff also, and they love it. I have found it very helpful occasionally, but it has to be used carefully because protein can be overdone.

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http://croadlangshan.org/


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:15 am 
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Old Mother Goose
Old Mother Goose
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Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:52 pm
Posts: 5187
Location: Outer Western Suburb of Melbourne, Vic
The fact that with some TLC and extra feed he comes good, makes me think it is dietary as Madchook suggests.

Get him onto some higher protein feed and vitamins in his water.

we see this sometimes in our larger breeds Wyandottes and Orpingtons.


Ron

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:50 am 
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Old Mother Goose
Old Mother Goose
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:15 pm
Posts: 6426
Location: ACT area
I just re read thru your check list and diet looked good.
OK - just spent some time with DrG as I hadn't heard of Manna Pro feed (are you in Aust or OS?)
My results indicate that Manna Pro is a 16% protein organic product. The bit that worries me from the OS info is that it is significantly less expensive than other similar products - which leads me to query the quality and the 'available' protein.
I would trial him on an alternative brand with a similar protein level (which should be adequate as he has 24/7 access)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Hatchling
Hatchling

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:47 am
Posts: 9
Sorry Sue! I misspoke. They get Nutrena brand. Here's the link:
https://www.nutrenaworld.com/product/nature-smart-layer-crumble-feed

Since I've posted this, he has done this 2 more times. Two days of crippling and so I feed him yogurt, peanut butter, or ensure and water. He bounces back and looks great for 4 days then starts crippling again. Now his tail feathers are droopy and his beak has turned almost black. :(


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