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 Post subject: Black spots on comb
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:41 pm 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:11 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Somerville, Victoria
Hi, one of my hens has black spots appearing on her comb. Is this Fowl Pox? She is not ill or behaving any differently to normal. At first I thought it may have been the rooster starting to work, but she has a couple of spots on her wattles now too. Do I need to separate her, or is it one of the diseases that the birds will develop natural immunity to? Will she become sicker? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm a newbie. Barbara B


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:14 am 
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Champion Bird
Champion Bird

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:33 am
Posts: 951
Location: Australia
Hi Barbara...I don't think you are dealing with pox here at all...I think you have some sort of vit/mineral deficiency...What do you feed them?
Do you give them any bread/scraps? If so how much?
Please be specific when you tell us what their diet consists of...
Also have you wormed them at all? If so with what product and when?
Please get back to us.
Looloo :)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:47 am 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:11 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Somerville, Victoria
The birds are about 20 weeks old. I'm feeding Layer Pellets from Barastoc. They are 15% protein and the birds have free access to them. They have access to a grassed yard during the day and they do eat a lot of grass. I give them a lettuce that has gone to seed and a couple of tomotoes each day; and sometimes a leaf or two of silverbeet. They get about a cup of wheat between five birds each evening. Free access to clean water available inside and outside their henhouse. When I look at that list, maybe they need more protein?? I haven't wormed them since we bought them.
Barbara B


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:14 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Posts: 950
Location: Northern NSW(yowie country)
It could be stickfast fleas.They attach to the comb,face and wattles.If so I have heard that frontline spray will get rid of them as well as vasaline or similar applied thickly to infested areas.I have never encountered the little blighters but I think they are relatively common.
Are you sure the chooks aren't putting their heads(or trying to)through wire mesh?
Good luck with them. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:12 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:33 am
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Location: Australia
BarbaraB at this stage I would cut out the wheat and only give them the pellets...15% protein is about as much protein as you can get in ordinary layer pellets...This should be fine...cut out all the other things you are feeding them..its just that when we are adding any other foods to the laying ration we are in actual fact watering it down so to speak...the percentage of protein lowers the more we add to the layer pellet...does that make sense?
I would start them of Soluvet...this is a vit annd mineral supplement that is used for birds and poultry..only add a few grains to their clean water every time you change it.( the dosage recommended on the container is to strong and they will not drink it).You can purchase this from stock supplies and it is not expensive.
Give this a go..it would be worthwhile also to worm all your birds...I use Nilverm...(from vets) mix to the directions on container and repeat in three weeks time to break the life cycle of the worms...all birds have worms...if they pick at the ground then they have worms...you can add Garlic to their mash if you want...mash made with only the pellets and hot water that is..
Garlic is only a preventative for worms to a degree it will not eradicate an infestation...also it is good for their immune system..
Try these things and see how they look in a couple of weeks.
Please let us all know how it goes.
Cheers
Looloo :)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:23 pm 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:11 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Somerville, Victoria
Hi Swallow,
they aren't insects, just black spots, like a tiny sore that has a scab on top.
Looloo,
I'll try what you have suggested and see if there's any change. Do you mean not to give wheat, lettuce or tomato either? I don't feed the pellets as a mash - should I be doing this? What about them eating the grass?
Barbara B


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:22 am 
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Flock Master
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 12:32 pm
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I would be more inclined to think that they have dry pox

Here is some information that you can read up on this

And also just to let you know.. stick fast fleas... only use olive oil and make sure you gently rub it on the upper eye lid as this is where they love to hide and can blind your birds.. and yes Frontline will get rid of them but you have to check them each week to make sure they don't get reinfected .. I find it easier to use the olive oil as this doesn't hurt the eyes and kills them within 24 hours.. they live in dry sandy soil

Pox

FOWL POX

Also called:
Avipoxvirus, DNA virus, also called “avian pox”

Reference:
http://www.msstate.edu/dept/poultry/dissymp.htm


Progression:
Slow-spreading infection.
Begins with cutaneous form and goes to diphtheritic form (GI and respiratory).
It is a Virus
It is spread by direct contact with infected birds
Mosquitoes carry the virus from wild & other birds
Use mosquito management programs to help reduce the mosquito population


Transmission:
Direct contact through skin abrasions.
Mosquitoes may serve as mechanical vectors.

Signs:
Clinical signs/Necropsy: Cutaneous – Wart like nodular lesions on un-feathered skin of chickens and head/upper neck of turkeys.
Lesions may also appear on feet, legs, around nostrils, and on eyelids.
Lesions become yellowish, progress to thick dark scabs, and may coalesce.
There are 2 main strains of the disease, the first appearing as greyish warty scabs on the comb, wattles and faces of the birds. The can result in serious disfigurement making such birds useless for showing. The second strain is more serious, causing cheesy substances to form in the respiratory passages, particularly the throat, which can cause death by asphyxiation

Mortality:
Low mortality, but decreased production.
Diphtheritic – Lesions on mucous membranes of part or entire digestive and respiratory tracts. Caseous patches or proliferative masses. High mortality.
Birds often recover from Fowl Pox but can remain carriers

Diagnosis:
Characteristic lesions. PCR is available.
Histo -- Eosinophilic cytoplasmic inclusion bodies in epithelial cells on microscopy. Infected cells are also enlarged, with associated inflammatory changes.
DDx: Infectious laryngotracheitis

Prevention:
Vaccine available
Vaccinate soon after hatching up to 2 weeks of age. All should then be revaccinated at 12-14 weeks of age
A vaccine is available which is applied with a two prong needle into the flap of skin on the wing. Unlike Mareks Disease where the vaccine must be given at day old, Fowl Pox vaccine can be given to birds of all age

Treatment:
There is no sure cure, other than treating the scabs with iodine and scraping the muck out of the birds' throats and painting with iodine
Clear the eyes and beaks so they can see to eat and drink on their own, use warm water with a very weak solution of iodine in the water







If it’s Dry Pox

Treatment of bird
You need to isolate the bird and put it into an uncrowded area, remove the scabs around the mouth and eyes so the bird can eat and see

Symptoms
Dry Pox, has small yellow warts that appear on the wattles, comb and face
These increase in size as the disease spreads
Dark brown scabs form, and then drop off


Secondary infections
To prevent secondary infections occurring you need to treat with 300 mg oxytetracycline (Terramycin) per gallon of drinking water for 3 days followed by vitamin supplement in the water, do not give the vitamins at the same time as the medication, one will cancel the other out

Recovery
The good news is that the birds naturally recover in 2 to 4 weeks usually, and are then immune to this particular strain of the disease

Reinfection
But some remain carriers and may become reinfected during molt and other times of stress; thoroughly clean the housing the bird has been in to remove all the infective scabs that may have come off

Human and the Pox
Another bit of good news, is that "chicken pox" in humans is caused by a different virus that has nothing to do the chickens, so no human health risk is involved

Now... if its Wet Pox

Treatment of the bird
The bird may have a thick discharge that interferes with its breathing, so clear the airways with cotton swabs coated with iodine, otherwise just treat it the same as dry pox
Swab lesion with Lugol’s solution of iodine

Symptoms
Wet Pox, has yellow cheesy lesions in the mouth and in the windpipe
Vaccination is recommended in areas of large mosquito populations


Treatment
At least now you know what it is, Betadine is a good iodine to use on the sores
Make sure the birds are getting fresh water every day, and fresh clean food every day

With taking the antibiotics, your bird may get diarrhea, give it some yoghurt plain and unsweetened (live culture) will bring the bowel back into a normal function, mix 2 tablespoon with some dry food every day for the next 2 weeks


Pox supportive treatment for blind birds

If it is Pox.
Supportive treatment is all you can do.
If there are any that are blind, put them in a small area, make sure they can all find waterers and feeders, make sure you don't move them once they are all familiar with where they are. Leave them in peace and quiet as much as you possibly can to reduce stress, you do not want a cocci outbreak to complicate things.
Standard treatment for Pox is nothing, as in DO NOTHING, they will recover, and a fatality from dry Pox is quite rare.
The good news is, once they have recovered they are immune to that particular strain of Poxvirus and will never catch that again.
Treat your mosquito population; this is what is causing the outbreaks
Unless you bring in new birds from somewhere, where the Pox is of a different strain, you may very well never see this in your birds again

I have never seen or heard of any waterfowl with Pox

_________________
Sandy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:06 am 
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Champion Bird
Champion Bird

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:33 am
Posts: 951
Location: Australia
Barbara B...now that you have mentined scabs on the spots...yes definately pox....we have to be exact when explaining symptoms to get help...Sandy is spot on.
Looloo


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:59 pm 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 179
Location: australia
well im betting its fowl pox :P
being the age that the bird is than i think that is the most likely thing.
its the ame as chicken pox only the young birds that havnt had it before get it. although some older birds do get it also if they havne not had it before. i forgot what exactly te stuff is called you dab onto the affected area.
its a common chemist tye of stuff forgot name but. ..
mark


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:56 pm 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:11 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Somerville, Victoria
Hi, thank you everyone for your assistance and your detailed replies. From your descriptions I would judge it to be Dry Pox in a mild form. The bird involved is exhibiting no other symptoms than the small scabs and she has about 6 or 7 of these. A few questions: Where do I buy 300 mg oxytetracycline (Terramycin)? Would it be OK to treat all five birds in that pen with it too as I don't have the facilities to separate them? Where do I buy the Vaccine against it and is is too late to vaccinate all my birds including those exposed to it?
We don't have many mosquitoes here - there is no open water near here.
Barbara B


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:47 pm 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 179
Location: australia
i would try giving the bird vet in knox victoria a call i know he has alo of thse soughts of things.
good luck with it and let us no how it goes
mark

_________________
breeder of quality white and black pekins. birds available occasionly.
co owner of www.freewebs.com/pekinsaustralia
always interested in helping other breeders or keepers of pekins or similiar.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:21 am 
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Flock Master
Flock Master

Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 12:32 pm
Posts: 2180
Barb

Seeing as they only have a mild form of Pox

Dab the infected spots with "betadine"
Give Multi Vitamins and Electrolytes in their drinking water

Multi vits and Electrolytes can be purchased from any place that sells things for Pigeons.. this is the one I use.. but dog or cat MV or Elec would be fine .. as long as it is a powder and you can mix it with water for your birds to drink

Give the Multi Vits and Electrolytes for 2 to 3 weeks to help boost their immune system.. also increase their protein level in their diet.. seeing as you only have a few birds.. get a tin of beef cat food..not dog food.. and mix 2 tablespoons into their dry food and then mix this with some milk to make it a crumble mixture not runny.. they should love it .. you can actually put a small pinch of the MV and E into the milk instead of into the drinking water... very small pinch .. alittle goes a long long way

To purchase any antibiotics you need to seek out an Avian Vet.. the Know Vet clinic in Victoria have an ordering system that youcan order on line.. just let the vet know what is wrong via email first

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au
This is the web address ..

Good luck

_________________
Sandy


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:15 pm 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:11 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Somerville, Victoria
Hi Sandy,
I have some Infant Formula Pentavite that I use when weaning puppies and I assume this will be OK to use for the hens too. Just a couple of drops per litre?? Also do I give the extra protein (beef catfood) every day or just now and then? I'll wait with the antibiotics and see what happens after these changes. If another hen comes down with it too, I'll go for the antibiotics. Does that make sense?
Barbara B


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:43 pm 
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Showy Hen
Showy Hen

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:11 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Somerville, Victoria
Hi, I thought I'd give you an update on this hen that had black spots on her comb and wattles. She seems to have fully recovered. She no longer has back spots on her comb and is behaving normally. I didn't actually do anything extra except a few drops of vitamins in their water and a few warm mash feeds. I guess she has just recovered herself. Barbara B


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:56 am 
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Champion Bird
Champion Bird

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:33 am
Posts: 951
Location: Australia
BarbB...glad to hear this...she must of just had a vit deficiency...a little run down..did you give her the beef cat food in her hot mashes?
Cheers
Loo :)


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