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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:53 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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I set 2 dozen eggs in the incubator on 28 July and on the 13 of August I slipped 1 doz of these (Marans X) under a Muscovy duck. She sat tight. The remaining doz Barnevelder eggs in the incubator started hatching as expected on Wednesday 17 August. I put the Barnie chicks into the brooder and left the Mussie undisturbed until Friday. When I checked on her, she was off the nest and the eggs were covered but stone cold although when I attempted to remove them, she attempted to kill me. I left one egg and she returned to the nest. and sat tight, so over the next few hours I put the Barnie chicks near her and she tucked them under her and has continued to mother them since. (I got the last egg)

The cold eggs (and seemingly very cold no hint warmth at all) I put into a cold King Suro (heats up quite quickly) and after 12 hours I did a float test. One sank and was discarded. The others all 'danced'. I repeated this Sat afternoon, they danced and I could hear chirping. This morning (Sunday) 3/12 are hatched and looking good - one has a slightly curled foot (should be fixable with vitamins and a 'shoe') and there are more noises happening.
Probably because of their evolutionary similarity to the cold blooded reptiles, it seems that at some stages bird embryos do have the ability to enter a state of suspended animation and recover. This is not the first time that I have done this successfully and is why I now float test all eggs before I give up on them. I don't know how long the eggs had been cold before I rescued them.

Just to add to the challenge load, we had a power outage at about 6am to day. Luckily mrsue55 was woken by the silence (no background noise of 4 bators running) and we had the generator running in 1/2 hour.

Just checked, another one pipped the shell.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:24 pm 
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Golden Robin
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We had a litter of kelpie puppies that mother refused to accept were hers. Four of them and born during the night on one of those first really cold blustery days. All four appeared to be dead but out of their amniotic sacs.

We brought them inside and placed them near the fire just in case. Within ten minutes one of them started to wimper and breathe and within an hour all four were properly alive. We were wondering what to do with four newborn puppies and along with searching the net for puppy colustrum and milk recipes we decided to show the mother the puppies one last time. By then her maternal instincts and bulging teats had kicked in and she took them back. They did grow to be good working kelpies and went to new owners at around the eight to twelve weeks of age. One owner even later asked for another from the same parents.

Mike

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Well done sue, it is amazing when you think their buggered but they still hatch, me too have had this happen. :thumbs:, wow Mike especially with pups amazing story with a very happy ending. I thought i was doing well bringing king quail chicks back from the brink of death.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:48 pm 
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There is another true story about a medic who jumped into the almost frozen river near Washington (Cheasapeake ?) in the US trying to save people from the airliner that crashed into it. He quickly went into hypothermic shock. It was twenty four minutes before he was retrieved and a further time before he was warm infused, intubated and as a result he was clinically dead with a stopped heart.

He recovered fully ultimately with the right treatment and follow up.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:04 pm 
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sue55 wrote:
Probably because of their evolutionary similarity to the cold blooded reptiles,


Hi sue55, now you have me thinking, why I hear you ask, because last night in front of the TV my wife was flicking throught the channels looking for something to watch, when she stop on a David Attenbrough doco which was just coming to a end, he was explaining a link between high temps global warming and the resulting hatching of all or mostly all male green sea turtles and I think I have heard similar in regards to crocs, Wondering could there be a correlation with poultry?
Reason being last year was my first attempt at incubating using a incubator, it all got to technical for me so I ran it the whole 21 days @ 38 degrees, with a great hatch % but the down side at least 95% males.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:26 pm 
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Ummm.. no ! Gender is fixed at the Zygote stage, nothing will change that. However, it is known that a higher temperature will change the number of males to females that survive til hatching. I have forgotten which it kills for the moment. Probably females otherwise the hatcheries would be using it.

Sheep breeders have long been aware that the season dictates the ratio of males to females that are conceived in order for the species to survive. Plush conditions mean more females whilst hard dry means more males to mate with the surviving females. With sheep, it is competition mating ensuring the strongest males that do the mating.

With the turtles and crocs (which I dont know a lot about) I would again assume that the gender is fixed and that the climate may alter it in the same way as the sheep but the hatching rate is biased because of female egg mortality ?? Again when we are talking about sheep, in a perfect world the female to male ratio is about fifty percent each way. The larger the numbers bred the more accurate this is statistically. Seasonal effect in sheep we are talking about a biased swing that may go 60/40% in extreme seasons but commonly may be 45/55% or less in moderate seasons.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:34 pm 
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With chicks there are some anectdotal stories that temperature stress at different times during incubation can affect the viability of either male or female chicks. Can't remember the details but again, if there were significant results, the 'industry' would be using it as a strategy.
Just my luck that temp. stress at the last stage of incubation favours males.

Love the pup story Mike.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:33 pm 
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5 out and brooding in a hexabator and another one pipped. All looking very healthy, the suspect foot doesn't need any intervention. Tomorrow they will go to the duck with the Barnies


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:08 am 
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What a great outcome. Cells divide quicker at warmer temperatures than cooler ones within a certain range. It's amazing how incubation times can be lengthened under a broody where there's some cooling and warming taking place. We hear stories of very delayed hatches that make it through at times.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:53 am 
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3 more this morning so that's 8/12. I'll float the last 4 eggs this afternoon but i suspect that it's all over now. So, they were due last Wed., chilled, warmed and still hatching by Mon. Now, their final challenge - raised by a duck :nuts


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:07 am 
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They will be excellent swimmers then.

I am always thrilled when something is born or hatched. It is just a new life and the thrill at each occasion has been the same since I was a little kid.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:40 am 
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Same here Mike. It never wears off does it?

I do think that these eggs had some things in their favour.
The hens were actually some 2 year old ISA's which I had been given however they had always been fed a premium diet and were in excellent condition. They were fresh after a moult and it was the beginning of the breeding season. These 12 old virgins were housed with a young (but unproven) Blue Marans Rooster. So, they were healthy, well fed and parasite free. A match made in Heaven.

I have been giving some assistance to the young man who previously owned the hens. Last Sunday he chose a Barnevelder rooster and took him home for company for his ISA's On Friday he presented me with a dozen eggs as a Thank You :doh. Any way of course I couldn't resist and cracked an egg. It was fertile so now there's 11 more X bred eggs in the bator :hiding


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:14 pm 
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I haven't heard of the float test before....but then this is only my second year.
I have just had a hatch of 5 out of 7 that were fertile.
Is it OK to float the remainder to see if they are viable.
If there is a dead chick inside the egg does it sink?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:39 pm 
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Yes, float the last couple. Water temp. about 38 ' - doesn't need to be exact. Put the eggs in and wait for them to stop floating around with the 'current'. Be sure that they have not started to pip the shell (although I've accidently done this and the hole rotates to above the water). Any thing which is still alive and active will jiggle (dance). If it just floats it is DIS. or has too big an air space. Sinkers have no air space and are not going to happen.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:54 pm 
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These are some of the chicks which hatched from the cold eggs - gotta love a mussie mum.


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