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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:38 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Hi All

I have tried searching for this but to no avail.

I am still struggling with the different types of genes and so far have ascertained that different allelles can exist on the same gene.

Is it possible for a gene to have both silver, red and lavender allelles? I ask because I have a S/s+ millefleur cockerel who has sired a chick that looks possibly silver porcelaine.

Also, given that the base colour of a chicken can only be red or black, does that mean that silver millefleur with gold leakage has a black and red allelles with a silver gene diluting the black and the silver (black) presenting because the silver is dominant?

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Last edited by SammyJ on Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:23 am 
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Prime Pekin
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Quote:
Is it possible for a gene to have both silver, red and lavender allelles? I ask because I have a S/s+ millefleur cockerel who has sired a chick that looks possibly silver porcelain.

A cockerel can have both Silver & gold, hens can only have one or the other.
Lavender is completely separate, so all three can be present in a male bird.

Quote:
Also, given that the base colour of a chicken can only be red or black, does that mean that silver millefleur with gold leakage has a black and red allelles with a silver gene diluting the black and the silver (black) presenting because the silver is dominant?

Your understanding is in correct. A chicken is either silver or gold based
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(A cockerel can have both Silver & gold, hens can only have one or the other.)
Silver birds may have leakage of gold/red tones due to Autosomal Red ,Mahogany etc. Silver does not dilute black ,think Light Sussex,Silver Laced Wyandotte. There is no single black gene, black birds are made by a combination of genes.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:27 am 
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Champion Bird
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Sammy, considering the guy that our silvers milles came from only breeds silver mille and porcelain, the chances are that our boys could be carrying porcelain.

Blackdotte, could silver mille females also carry the lav gene for porcelain?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:53 am 
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Dapper Duck
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I know nothing about genetics, but a silkie breeder in the NT has some gold tipped lavenders :D


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Prime Pekin
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Quote:
could silver mille females also carry the lav gene for porcelain?

Yes

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I know nothing about genetics, but a silkie breeder in the NT has some gold tipped lavenders

Lavender turns black to a lavender shade, and red/gold to a very pale cream (Isabella) so a Lavender bird with gold tips is not possible. Could be Blue.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Im just reading it so I have no idea :P


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:05 pm 
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The one in question is a hen though, does that make a difference?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:23 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Thanks so much for your replies, very helpful!

I just re-read my initial post and realised how many mistakes I made! Oops, too many glasses of wine! :wink:

Thankfully you answered all my questions regardless!

Here are some photos, what do you think? Is she/he showing lavender?

Image

Image

Image

Group Shot:
Image

Dad:
Image

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:49 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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Quote:
what do you think? Is she/he showing lavender?


No.

I think he/she is poorly patterned silver, or, perhaps recessive white.

Raf

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:52 pm 
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Champion Bird
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Sammy hasn't mentioned that she suspects that her silver porcelain hen was the layer of at least one of the eggs that was hatched.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:12 pm 
the top silver chicken with the pale skid mark on the head is lavender. the father is the silver porcelain so possibly the chicken is a silver lavender porcelain. but definitly the chicken is lavender and you will see it coming through on its flights and anywhere that the rooster has black it will have lavender..


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:19 pm 
as a further comment. yes your comments are a bit confusing. the rooster is brassy hackled and because you have gold offspring it is a sure sign he is split gold. the rooster is not a good silver milliefluer so it is difficult to really tell if he is or if he is just a not a really good spangle. however such problems can be overcome with selective breeding and a knowledge of genetics to aid your breeding program.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Ruff, both our silver mille boys are split for gold unfortunately. Sammy's boy is a lot worse than mine and they are both poorly marked. Mine won't be used for breeding silver mille however.

Sammy has a gold mille pullet who is the mother to most of those chicks so the gold isn't only from the father. Her tail end is visable in the group shot. She's got an abundance of marking so hopefully Sammy might get some decent birds out of those chicks.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:58 pm 
the roosters silver daughters should be clean silver. cross him to a daughter and you will get clean silver roosters.

he definitly has one dose of mottling. from the tail of the hen she seems well marked. i see no reason why some of the offspring from the 2 should not be good. remembering they change with each moult. one might be good this year but gay the next etc. you balance the breeding pens by using something well marked or over marked to something under marked.

i am only just creating millie so i have no idea on how to maintain the colour pattern but i am sure there is a lot written about them here and over seas. it will not be a quick search it will take months.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:14 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Hi, just a quick question re lavender and gold. I have a lavender pekin roo and a blue pekin hen with a gold neck hackle. Could this mix throw a blue with cream neck hackle. And considering blue being a diluted black would lavender work on this too to dilute the blue further? My knowledge of genetics is still extremely basic so sorry if my questions sound a little silly to those who have more knowledge. BTW Ruff, is your genetics knowledge from formal learning or practical experience or both? I am learning but it is a very slow process and I am finding it easier to learn small amounts at a time as reading the posts with a wealth of info is very daunting I tend to skim through the bits that get complicated!


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