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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:58 am 
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Hatchling
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Hello, I am very new to chick raising and I have a question. I bought 7 day olds and have lost 4, I suspect that I had an outbreak of coccidiosis, the first one died the day I brought her home and two others followed close behind, I started treating with Coccivet but still lost the fourth one after four days (just when I thought she was going to be fine). Now it has been seven days that the remaining three have been on the Coccivet (amprolium) today I started them on probiotics, but I am worried that this might not be the right thing to do. They are fed Chick starter and I have just started putting them outside on grass during the day (not in the chicken run just on the lawn). (Two are four weeks old now and one is three weeks). Their morning droppings this morning looked blood free although there is some pinkish bits but not red. Only the ones that died had blood in their droppings usually on the day they died, except for the last one who was being treated. Will the probiotics have any effect on the efficacy of the amprolium in the chick starter?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:47 pm 
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Assist Admin
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I am sorry you had issues with coccidiosis on your first chick raising experience.
What is the active ingredient in the coccidiosis medication you are using and which probiotics are you using?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Hatchling
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The medication I had them on was Coccivet (amprolium) in their water, the Probiotics I started today after 7 days of medication is called Vetafarm probiotic, the label says "soluble probiotic for dogs, cats, caged birds and poultry chicks." Also I tried adding a perch to the brooder this evening as I thought they were old enough, two of them happily sat on it, the third threw a tantrum and cried so much the other two got down to try to calm her, they then couldn't settle so I had to take it out. When can they sleep on a perch?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:33 pm 
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You can give probiotics the coccivet should be finished now ?? usually 7 days the chick starter will have its only preventative medication in it.You can not give vitamins when on ingredients containing amprolium.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:30 am 
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Hatchling
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Yes the coccivet is finished now after seven days, I was just worried about probiotic but if it is only vitamins you can't give with amprolium all is fine. Thank you. I am a bit stressed having lost over half of them, they would be looking a little sleepy one day and dead the next so it took a while for me to work out what was happening. Now I worry about them and even go out to the laundry in the middle of the night to check they are ok.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:57 am 
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Wise Wyandotte
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I'm sorry you had such a difficult start with your chicks. The pinkish stuff in their poo is internal lining of their intestines. It is completely normal after a case of coccidiosis and a sign of healing. No need to stress at the moment, but it's good to have all relevant information.
If you like you can read more about coccidiosis HERE. There is even more information if you have a look under "C" in the green section at the very top of the medical area of BYP. I thought you might be interested.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:03 am 
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Old Mother Goose
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macl27 wrote:
You can give probiotics the coccivet should be finished now ? usually 7 days the chick starter will have its only preventative medication in it.You can not give vitamins when on ingredients containing amprolium.


No vitamins with Amprolium? Does this mean no Vitamins if using medicated chick starter/grower?
More info. please


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:10 am 
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Wise Wyandotte
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No. Chick starter usually has other medication in it, not Amprolium. The reason for not using vitamins that include vitamins from the B group is the mode of action of Amprolium. It works by depriving the coccidia of necessary vitamin B they get from the normal feed you give your chicks. But if you add extra vitamin B there will be enough vitamin B to keep the coccidia alive.

If you are using a chick starter with added Amprolium, then the Amprolium won't work if you are supplementing with vitamin B at the same time.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:50 pm 
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Hatchling
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Thank you I have been reading all the info on Coccidiosis it is interesting that even people with lots more experience have problems with this infection too, but reading that part about how the organism reproduces it is no wonder the little ones get overwhelmed and die. I had never heard of it until the second chick died and I started trying to find out why (I assumed because the first one died the day she came home it was the stress of the car ride). I was practicing super vigilant brooder cleaning but noticed the little devils peck at each others bottoms and if there is the trace of droppings on the side walls they peck at that too! Seriously how can you control it if they are going to be so suicidal! Initially I naively thought that it couldn't be Coccidiosis because the medication in the chick starter would be controlling that.
Does anyone know what medication is in the Riverina Chick starter, I looked online but they don't say?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:25 pm 
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There is a very big clue there. If they are pecking at one another then its either because they can see the colour red (which is a peck attractor) as in bloody stools or the brooder is too small or two over crowded and the chickens are bored.

Either way I think you have a husbandry problem that needs to be sorted out.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:57 pm 
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Wise Wyandotte
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Quote:
Does anyone know what medication is in the Riverina Chick starter, I looked online but they don't say?


Apparently, it is sodium salinomycin. http://webdata.riverina.com.au/website/ ... icated.pdf

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:30 pm 
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Hatchling
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The brooder is about a metre long by half a metre wide and hasn't had more than four in it at a time. I didn't get them all at once as I was waiting on certain breeds from the breeders and from day one they started dying so I got replacements but i have given up now, I will just buy point of lay when I find out if any females survive from these three. I was thinking it is a little large when I try to catch one they have plenty of room to run away from me.
They were pecking at the sick one on each occasion to the point where I removed the sick one, so it probably was they were seeing red. I don't think they were bored they are terrified if you put anything new in the brooder I put a couple of spinach leaves in there and they acted like teenagers when they find a new vege on their plate! But they aren't scared of the food or my hands they peck me to get at the food.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Hatchling
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Thanks nostress I looked on their site but didn't find that bit that is very useful, I will research that now, interesting it says the feed expires after three months perhaps it wasn't effective for my babies because the bag might have been sitting around for a while before I bought it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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If the chickens were literally day old the time frame might indicate some cause other than coccidiosis.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:10 pm 
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Golden Robin
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Like a lot of things an expiry date just doesn't give you 100% from day one and then 0% on day 91. In any case there is usually quite a generous margin built into an expiry date.

Time is rarely the major factor in the deterioration of a product. Storage is the major factor and that has to take into account things like humidity, UV light, heat cold etc. Most medications are complex hydrocarbons and or proteins. Both break down (the technical term is "denature") with any of the above factors acting upon them.

Also most poultry feeds are made as a dry mix. It nearly impossible to get a substance equally distributed throughout a mix and particularly when a relatively small amount (say a kilo of medication) is being added to perhaps a tonne of feed materials.

I worked as a microbiologist for a company that made high quality microbiology culture media (agar). To be able to culture and identify different bacteria you require quite different types of agar mixes. This includes the inclusion of antibiotics at very specific concentrations and amounts. The company learnt fairly early that mixing dry materials is a very hit and miss approach and they had to resort to a very expensive method of making the culture media (sold as a powder and prepared in the laboratory as a solid water based agar in petrie dishes) by mixing the ingredients together as solutions and then spray drying it. Spray drying is the way they make powdered milk.

Feed companies can't afford this process and its not a very practical method as many ingredients are not soluable. However the fact remains the mixing dry materials together is a very hit and miss way of getting an even dispersal of of all ingredients.

In short there are a lot of reasons why a medicated feed didn't work and a date stamp isn't the main one.

Mike

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