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 Post subject: second sick chooky :(
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:44 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Location: WA Coast
mum (Rainbow) posted about a sick chook a few weeks ago, which sadly passed away.

It seems we have another sick chook but so far it hasn't been quite the same as the other one.

This one, yesterday, sat on the nest all day. When mum let the flock out to freerange, she jumped off, but left behind an egg with a shell the consistency of paper and it had been crushed by the chickens' bodyweight, therefore her whole backend is now covered with egg.

She freereanged for around an hour and then returned to the nest.

This morning, she seems to be lethargic and has been hiding under the weelbarrow away from the rest of the flock.

We have removed her from the coop and "hospitalised" her in the house in an attempt to keep her warm and so we can closesly supervise and observe any further developments.

Age: 28 months
Breed: Isa Brown
Sex: Female

What symptoms have you noted?
disfigured egg, remaining in the nest all day, lethargic, isolated herself from the rest of the flock, we have not observed her eating or drinking but there are signs that she may have pecked at her food a little

Full droppings description.
there is brown, white and a lot of clear liquid

Please note if you have/can observe any changes in the following:
breathing doesnt seem to have any problems with breathing

Condition?
she feels a little bit skinny, but she (along with the rest of the flock) has just moulted.

Her comb/wattle is a deep, rich red but her comb is drooping slightly

She started loosing feathers again around a week ago (looking like another moult)

Behaviour?
She has been very antisocial and hiding away from the rest of the flock(as stated before)

we have not observed her feeding but there are some signs that she may have pecked at her food.

She was one of only two chooks that were laying amongst our flock , but she layed a disfigured egg after sitting in the nest all day.

She seems a little bit lethargic (not running around even when we caught her)

- inc. socialising, feeding, laying, crowing, energy

Agility?
there is no lameness or favouring.

When was the bird last wormed?
two weeks ago with a follow up treatment a few days ago.

Any other recent medications?
no

Other changes?
we have had some cold nights recently and there was a rain storm the other day but the chooks are well sheltered.

Mum initially suspected that she may have been eggbound, but after seeing the paper like consistency of the egg she laid, she was obviously still passing things so she couldnt be egg bound.

Any help would be appreciated

cheers

Em


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:33 am 
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Old Mother Goose
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Em,
I'm not too sure at the moment what is going on.

Let me double check - she has been laying well even though she has just moulted?
So this isn't an odd first post-moult egg then.

My first suggestion would be to put her on the rickets diet.

Keep us updated with egg type and frequency, droppings, behaviour and appetite.

Does she have a swollen abdomen?
I know the egg made a mess of her vent so it might be an idea to clean that up so you can keep an eye on whether she gets a messy or smelly vent.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:35 pm 
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Proud Rooster
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Thanks for your help Stella

Update today:

poos' have become liquid with only some pale greenish/white bits.

She's not eating, but, mum and i force fed-fed her the rickets recipe as suggested.

She's not drinking, but she does if we dip her beak in the water

Her comb is still a vibrant red, but has drooped even more.

She seems quite sleepy and is still lethargic and seeks isolation.

We still have her inside in hope that she might perk up, but at this stage, her symptoms currently are the same as the first chook that died. If our judgement is correct, she will have two days at best :cry:

No other chooks at this stage are showing symptoms of sickness, but, if history repeats, the next one will be in two weeks.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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Em,
You are either a realist or a pessimist!

If they are dropping of as frequently as your last post would suggest - with vague symptoms, then I would highly recommend a post mortem.

Only with the view of being able to better prevent or treat those others that may or may not come down with it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Gallant Game
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stella wrote:
Em,
You are either a realist or a pessimist!



A bit of both I think Stella...

We are still force feeding Sick Chook #2.
She doesnt seem to be going downhill as rapidly as the first, which we just left to see if she comes good...

It seems like these chooks for some reason just stopped eating and went quiet one day... no aparent lead up or other symptoms.
Very vague symptoms I agree.

We are keeping Sick Chook in the laundry overnight, and isolated outside during the day.
At this stage she seems no better, no worse. I am just hoping that by continuing to force feed her, she may keep enough strength to fight off whatever it is that is trying to kill her.... but a we are prepared for the worst...

I mentioned in another post that the few chooks with names here have earned them... if this one survives she will be "The Lucky Chooky" !

Em or Myself will keep you posted on how she goes.

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My "little farmyard"-Well really it is a 3 Ring Circus-Seems I am the RingLeader-Chooks, Ducks, Dogs, Cats, Amphibians, Reptiles, Fish, Parrots, Childerbeasts...OH YES We Have it ALL! Roll up, Roll up...
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:54 pm 
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Great Game
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Just a quick question...

Your force feeding her now, with ricketts diet and the "poos' have become liquid with only some pale greenish/white bits"...

Is her crop filling and emptying?
Have a feel of it, say first thing in the morning, when it should be empty...
Is it empty?
Any lumps bumps or bulges?

Plucking at straws here, but anything is worth a try.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:26 pm 
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Gallant Game
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Sammiz,

Her crop is filling and emptying, and there is 'substance' to her poos now.
Dark brown, but a lot of liquid, white and clear, with it.

She is starting to fight against being force fed and seems to be getting stronger at it...hopefully a good sign... but she is still not making any attempt to eat, or showing any interest in food.

Breathing seems normal, no signs of snotty nose or anything.

She just sits there, sometimes awake, sometimes asleep.

She is still hanging in there, so I will keep on nursing her...

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My "little farmyard"-Well really it is a 3 Ring Circus-Seems I am the RingLeader-Chooks, Ducks, Dogs, Cats, Amphibians, Reptiles, Fish, Parrots, Childerbeasts...OH YES We Have it ALL! Roll up, Roll up...
Visit the madhouse at Just us Chooks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:02 am 
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Great Game
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Location: NE burb of Melb, Victoria
Rainbow,

Well any change is something, good or bad... it's when nothing at all happens that we really can't help.

So she feels to be getting a bit stronger?
I would suggest this is a good thing.
*One reality to keep in mind is the "flame that burns brighter before it goes out" theory... I don't want to join in the pessimist game, but its a very real occurence that sometimes, humans and animals alike can perk up before they check out... so don't count a good day until you get handful :)

How much/often are you feeding her?
Have you tried tempting her with other foods? different colours, textures, smells? Anything to tempt her appetite...

And what about fluids? is she still only drinking if you dip her beak in it?
Have you got the water in easy reach, so its no effort for her to drink - for instance, if she has to get up and walk 'over there' to get some water, she may be too tired...

I wonder if the egg has nothing to do with all this...:?
It could have just been an 'odd' egg... this seasons moult has been rotten on most, one can expect some repercussions.

So if we cancel out the egg from the equation... we've got:
lethargy
loss of appetite
liquidy poos
weight loss

What about a parasite?
You've just wormed them, so i would think it wouldn't be that... what did you worm them with by the way?

But perhaps cocci?
I would have expected some paling of the comb and wattles, but i guess you never know.

What does everyone else think?

Rainbow, do you have any sulphur meds on hand?

Hang in there.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:12 pm 
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Gallant Game
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So she feels to be getting a bit stronger?
I would suggest this is a good thing.
*One reality to keep in mind is the "flame that burns brighter before it goes out" theory... I don't want to join in the pessimist game, but its a very real occurence that sometimes, humans and animals alike can perk up before they check out... so don't count a good day until you get handful :)

I am with you on this thought...She does seem to have a bit of fight left in her yet though and seems a little more each day...

How much/often are you feeding her?
I make up the Rickets recipe each morning, which recommended the whole amount divided into 3 feeds a day...She is not quite getting the whole amount each day, but is eating more than half the quantity... She gets a bit annoyed at being made to eat and I dont want to stress her too much, so I only feed her until she gets really cranky and fights it.

Have you tried tempting her with other foods? different colours, textures, smells? Anything to tempt her appetite...
She has a small tray of Poultry mix (Wheat, Sunflower, pellets, corn, lupin etc) in her hospital and I have offered her some grated apple and some Mash that I feed the other chooks... she looks at it and looks interested, but wont eat.


And what about fluids? is she still only drinking if you dip her beak in it?
Have you got the water in easy reach, so its no effort for her to drink - for instance, if she has to get up and walk 'over there' to get some water, she may be too tired...

She is mostly in a washing basket in the laundry so she doesnt need to walk anywhere to reach food or water. I have seen her drinking on her own yesterday and today.
I keep her inside in the washing basket at night and have been putting her outside during the day... she is not restricted to the washing basket, but she seems to like it in there and doesnt get out...except yesterday afternoon, she jumped out to hide under a nearby bush.

I wonder if the egg has nothing to do with all this...:?
It could have just been an 'odd' egg... this seasons moult has been rotten on most, one can expect some repercussions.

I think the "odd egg" was just that as her body became weaker. She has not laid since, but was a good layer (5-6 a week nice big speckled eggs) up until now. She was one of the quickest through the mould and only had a couple of weeks off laying in March. I think we can safely rule out anything to do with eggs.

So if we cancel out the egg from the equation... we've got:
lethargy
loss of appetite
liquidy poos
weight loss

What about a parasite?
You've just wormed them, so i would think it wouldn't be that... what did you worm them with by the way?

Nilverm Pig and Poultry Wormer (Levamisole?(sp) )

But perhaps cocci?
I would have expected some paling of the comb and wattles, but i guess you never know.

He comb has gone floppy, and is only now starting to look a little pale. The previous chooky who had the same symptoms had lost nearly all color in her comb...
I had not even considered Cocci as there seems to be no blood in her poos... and her vent seems clear. I have her on Newspaper in the washbasket so i can check them...But after re reading the symptoms, most of the other symptoms seem close !

What does everyone else think?

Rainbow, do you have any sulphur meds on hand?
No, I dont.... I am assuming I should be able to get some from a Vet? Or maybe Stockfeeder (although maybe not in this small town)

Hang in there.
Thanks Sammiz... were Hanging !

Today again....she seems no better... no worse...

Tam & Em.

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My "little farmyard"-Well really it is a 3 Ring Circus-Seems I am the RingLeader-Chooks, Ducks, Dogs, Cats, Amphibians, Reptiles, Fish, Parrots, Childerbeasts...OH YES We Have it ALL! Roll up, Roll up...
Visit the madhouse at Just us Chooks


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:12 pm 
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Gallant Game
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do you have any sulphur meds on hand?

Our Vet opens at 4pm today, I can see if he has any, if you think it might help...?

If it is not Cocci and I use the medication will it hurt them??

Thanks again...

Tam & Em.

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My "little farmyard"-Well really it is a 3 Ring Circus-Seems I am the RingLeader-Chooks, Ducks, Dogs, Cats, Amphibians, Reptiles, Fish, Parrots, Childerbeasts...OH YES We Have it ALL! Roll up, Roll up...
Visit the madhouse at Just us Chooks


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:20 pm 
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Great Game
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I'll be interested to see what others say.

But regarding the sulphur meds. Try out your stockfeed place.. They're not uncommon.
Med of choice on here is usually "Sulphaquin"... or i've heard of "Sulpha3", "baycox", "coccivet"...
But others will no more about all that.
Sulpha meds are a good thing to have on hand anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:24 pm 
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Great Game
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Sorry, i missed your post.

I never like to medicate unnecessarily, but sometimes its hard to know.

As i said before, sulpha meds are good to have on hand anyway... sulphaquin is a good one.

The main problem i know with it, is it acts as a blood thinner, so you really need to make sure the chook won't get cold, or she could end up with a chill on top of everything else.

Something to remember also... if one chook has cocci, then they're all exposed to it, so i'd be watching the others for any symptoms too.

Please keep in mind... i could be wrong about it being cocci :?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:26 pm 
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Oh and by the way... (i will shut up soon)

When treating for cocci, you shouldn't really be feeding them high protein feeds (eg. rickets diet) as this just feeds the cocci... same with multivitamins.

Just something else for you to keep in mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:27 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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I would definitely give her some Sulfa drugs for 7 days.
I got Sulfa 3 from a pet and produce store.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:03 pm 
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Quote:
When treating for cocci, you shouldn't really be feeding them high protein feeds (eg. rickets diet) as this just feeds the cocci... same with multivitamins.


If I go ahead with the Sulpha Medication... what should I feed her? Remembering she is currently not picking food, but being force fed?? so something easy to stick in her gob would be good...?
A pastey mash of ?

ALL advice is greatly appreciated...

Thanking you again, and again...

Tam & Em...

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My "little farmyard"-Well really it is a 3 Ring Circus-Seems I am the RingLeader-Chooks, Ducks, Dogs, Cats, Amphibians, Reptiles, Fish, Parrots, Childerbeasts...OH YES We Have it ALL! Roll up, Roll up...
Visit the madhouse at Just us Chooks


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