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 Post subject: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 3:55 am 
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Hatchling
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Lost half my chicks in first week (purchased from local feed store). Sent in chick for necropsy, E. Coli was diagnosed. Do I need to cull rest of chicks, or since e. Coli is naturally present, can I introduce to flock when they are a bit bigger?


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:01 am 
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Showy Hen
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Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:04 pm
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Location: NSW Southern Highlands
Sorry to hear about your situation.
Did they tell you what KIND of E.coli it was?
Average e.coli are not a problem, except when young animals are getting started. There are E.coli strains that do cause problems, though.
It seems strange for someone to tell you the problem was E.coli without giving you all information required........
Either way, you should probably wait until you know the rest of the chicks are healthy before putting them with the rest of the flock. This would apply irrespective of the recent events. Quarantine is a good thing.....
Also, If they are little - They will not be able to defend themselves or protect themselves from the big girls in any case. Hope it goes well.


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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Who/how was the necropsy done?
Did they provide a written report and advice?
Coccidiosis would probably be more common cause of chick death than E.coli


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Hatchling
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So, I think collibacilliosis is the typical one, right? And, last death was May 10th, so given the incubation period, I am guessing the remaining chicks developed a resistance.

Trying to attach a pic of report,but can't. Not sure if it is our poor internet or an issue with the file.


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Hatchling
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Maybe this will work?


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Hatchling
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sue55 wrote:
Who/how was the necropsy done?
Did they provide a written report and advice?
Coccidiosis would probably be more common cause of chick death than E.coli


The chick was sent to UC Davis, I finally got part of their report attached. They only do the necropsy, they don’t give advice. Our vet really dislikes feathered animals, so I am here. :)

I treated for coccidia, but, honestly, non of the typical features were there...it was cold, the chicks were only a day or 2 old and no bloody diarrhea. 1-2 chicks were dying every 12 hours....like something was spreading through the flock.


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Old Mother Goose
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The identification of 'Coccidia' is to be expected to some degree - It's generally only a problem if it gets out of control before a natural resistance develops.
Assuming the chicks weren't dying from cold or heat then my guess is that the E-coli burden was just too heavy for them and that now they have developed the ability to resist it.
What is your water source - my bore water has a low E-coli count so I don't give my young birds access to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Hatchling
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sue55 wrote:
The identification of 'Coccidia' is to be expected to some degree - It's generally only a problem if it gets out of control before a natural resistance develops.
Assuming the chicks weren't dying from cold or heat then my guess is that the E-coli burden was just too heavy for them and that now they have developed the ability to resist it.
What is your water source - my bore water has a low E-coli count so I don't give my young birds access to it.

We have well water. We got 9 other chicks at the same time, but put them in a separate coop....no issues with them (or any of the other chicks/chickens we have raised over the last 8 years here).


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Showy Hen
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Location: NSW Southern Highlands
Colibacilosis is quite common and is associated with hygiene issues as well as predisposing diseases, especially respiratory diseases. The hygiene issues could have started at the egg before they were even hatched, but could also have occurred anywhere/and time since, but is more common where there is a lot of faeces around.

Young birds don't have competent immune systems and therefore can succumb, (just as they can to other diseases at that age). Usually, something else, like mycoplasma, causes all the "immune energy" the birds had to get used up and there is nothing left to fight the next thing. It is a pity they didn't type the e.coli. When birds survive this, they end up being carriers. "Normal" e.coli can cause colibacilosis, but do not cause issues for other birds and humans. E.coli of certain serotypes can make it more likely that others get sick. Again, though, good hygiene can reduce this.

You asked should you cull the others. You mentioned the chicks kept elsewhere were all OK. That would suggest the conditions wherever the others are have not caused an exposure to the required set of circumstances, - either another pathogen to create the predisposing conditions, or too much faeces in the environment. I think there is no need to cull anyone.

However, you will need to be careful with any future chicks you get. This is not necessarily a prediction of terrible stuff to come, just be aware that this happened before, that hygiene is a big factor and take appropriate steps to mitigate that.

I hope all goes well from here on in. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:23 am 
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Hatchling
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Thank you! I would not cull, unless I had to. Though, I am still thinking of building a separate coop for this group!

Due to the deaths starting within 12 hours of purchase (it was a specific breed that started dying first) and me cleaning and bleaching everything every other day, I assume the E. coli originated from the hatchery.

On a side note, my turkens are tough little things!


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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Great Game
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Sorry you have lost chickens, it's always sad and disappointing. And welcome to the forum - I think it great that with forums reducing in numbers and size and following that this forum has something positive to offer that facebook lacks. It says a lot that it is a useful information sharing source on an international level.

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 Post subject: Re: Cull for E. Coli?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Hatchling
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PossumCorner wrote:
Sorry you have lost chickens, it's always sad and disappointing. And welcome to the forum - I think it great that with forums reducing in numbers and size and following that this forum has something positive to offer that facebook lacks. It says a lot that it is a useful information sharing source on an international level.


I agree! This has been very helpful!


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